What happened to the Mulholland "King of the Hill" RSR?

[Banning]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hail

Thanks Chris!


The history of the 917 at the end of its career.

Around the beginning of the OPEC crisis (remember gas lines) rules were imposed on Can Am race cars for consumption in MPG (who ever heard of such thing) which replaced displacement limitations of Championship of Makes (Prototypes). This would kill the 917 at the high of its career in both forms of classification.

The unofficial story:

Is the 917 in its final variant Model 30 was so dominant no other cars fielded against it were even competitive. The only way another car would win is if catastrophic failure or crash caused a DNF. If another car took 1st the 917 took 2nd and 3rd. Pretty Impressive. So the powers that be changed the rules ultimately ending the 917's racing career.

Here is the official story:

Porsche's first foray into the Can-Am was not by design but by the luck of the calendar. Beginning in 1969, Watkins Glen held a combined racing weekend for the World Championship of Makes (endurance racing sportscars) and the Can-Am. A 6-hour endurance race would be held on Saturday and a Can-Am on Sunday. The "prototype" sportscars that ran in the endurance were legal (though under-powered) to run in the Can-Am. So as long as the teams were there, they would enter the Can-Am. (Hey, the money was good.) Jo Siffert drove a factory entered Porsche 908 Spyder to a sixth place finish. Another Porsche driver, Tony Dean, who entered his own car, became a Can-Am regular with his 908 Spyder. (Like I said, the money was good.)

Later in the year, Siffert returned with a Porsche 917PA, an open topped (Spyder) version of the recently developed 917 endurance racer. The 917 had a complex aluminum-tube space frame chassis and was powered by an air cooled, 4.5-liter flat-12 engine. It was heavy and under-powered compared to the 7-liter Chevys prevalent in the Can-Am. Siffert's best finish was a third, but he did finish fourth in the Can-Am championship after only racing two thirds of the season.

In 1970, Siffert again drove a factory entered endurance Porsche in the Watkins Glen Can-Am. This time he scored an amazing second place finish in a 917K coupe. The only Porsche regular in the Can-Am, however, was Dean in his little 3-liter 908. It may not have been fast, but it was reliable. This was proven at Road Atlanta when he gave Porsche their first Can-Am victory. This win broke Team McLaren's 19 race win streak. Dean finished sixth in the championship.

There were three Porsches regularly driven in the 1971 Can-Am -- the 908 of Frank Matich, the 917PA (ex-Siffert car) entered by Vasek Polak for Milt Minter, and the 917/10 of Jo Siffert. The endurance Porsches also put in their appearance at Watkins Glen (for the last time), but the best finisher was Gijs van Lennep in ninth.

Siffert's 917/10 had the same wheelbase as the 971PA, but the body was shorter and had fins on each side of the rear bodywork. Engine size was 5- liters when introduced (a third of the way into the season), but up to 5.4-liters by the end of the season. Just before its first race, Siffert signed a sponsorship contract with STP. They couldn't come up with any day-glo red paint (STP's racing colors) in time to paint the car for the race, but they did find contact paper in the proper color with which to cover the car.

Siffert scored several top-5 finishes, including two seconds, to finish fourth in the championship. Unfortunately, he was killed in a Formula One race before the season ended. Minter finished sixth in the championship.

1972 saw the face of the Can-Am change with the introduction of Porsche's new 917/10K. Fitted with twin-turbocharged, 5-liter flat-12 engines, the factory supported, L&M cigarette sponsored, Roger Penske prepared 917/10Ks of Mark Donohue and George Follmer won six of nine races. Donohue missed four races because of injuries suffered in a testing accident, so Follmer was brought in as a substitute driver. After Donohue returned, Penske entered cars for both drivers. Follmer accounted for five of the six Porsche wins and was rewarded with the Can-Am championship. Several other drivers raced 917PAs or 917/10s, but not of the configuration of the Penske cars.

Had the 5-liter turbocharged flat-12 not worked out, Porsche had built a normally aspirated 7.2-liter flat-16 motor. Though tested, it was never raced. It was never needed, as the turbo motors produced 1000 hp on the dyno and 900 hp in race trim.

The body of the 917/10K was slab-sided with a wing mounted between fins on the rear bodywork. The bodywork directly in front of the front wheels, was concave, instead of the normal convex shape, to help produce downforce. The 917/10K could go from 0-60 mph in 2.1 seconds, 0-100 mph in 3.9 seconds, and 0-200 mph in 13.4 seconds! Their race performance was so awesome that they were called the Porsche "Panzers".

In 1973, Porsche and Penske upped the ante. Donohue's 917/30 had streamlined bodywork and a new 5.4-liter, twin turbocharged, flat-12 motor that produced 810 ft-lb of torque and 1100 hp in race trim (and had seen 1500 hp on the dyno). This was the most powerful road racing car until the turbocharged F1 racers of the mid-1980s. Donohue called the 917/30 "a monument to my career as an engineer and driver."

Porsche won all eight races in 1973. Charlie Kemp and George Follmer won the first two races in 917/10Ks before Donohue and the 917/30 got their act together and won six in a row and the championship. This was the first time that anyone had won six straight Can-Am races.

For 1974, the Sports Car Club of America, partially because of the OPEC oil crisis and partially because of the dominance of the turbocharged Porsche engines, introduced a fuel consumption formula of three miles per gallon. Porsche pulled out of the Can-Am. The only Porsche regulars during the five race season were a couple of old 908s.

The 917/30 made one appearance in 1974, at the Mid-Ohio Can-Am. Reasons varied from the official story that this was the track at which it got the best gas mileage, to a rumor that the promoters would not rigidly enforce the gas mileage rules in an effort to increase interest in the dying series. Brian Redman started the car on pole but finished second.

The 917/30 made one last run before being retired to a museum and occasional historic racing duty. On August 9, 1975, Donohue drove it at the Talladega superspeedway to a World Closed Course Speed Record of 221.120 mph. It had run 250 mph on the straights.

Thanks for the backround of the 917 Jeff.
I hold a life-long fascination for the car also. But unfortunately ,if you want to drive a flat-twelve engine you will find that you will be forced to get a Testarossa. But of course as we all know here there is no substitute for a Porsche. Thanks in large part due to this thread, there will soon be big changes in my Garage.



Below are the variants that Jeff was talking about and the cars that led to them.

[porcupine911]

Originally Posted by Banning

...Thanks in large part due to this thread, there will soon be big changes in my Garage....

can you give us a hint?

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Originally Posted by porcupine911

can you give us a hint?

He's either buying a 917, another truck, or a primered Corvette!

[Jeff Hail]

Originally Posted by porcupine911

jeff -

i've been looking for a good book on the 917. any comment on this one?

Amazon.com - Porsche 917: The Winning Formula



thanks.

Winning Formula is a great book. Also try Porsche Sports Racer (917-935-956-962) which has some great writing and pics.

Some great detail photos are available at Carl Thompsons website. Carl worked for Vasek Polak. The last "new" 917 built and it was the real McCoy! It was completed and sold.
http://www.pbase.com/917carl/root

The same car was assembled in 2004 by Kevin Jeannette which has a great photo build at: http://www.gunnarracing.com/



Everyone should have a 917 parked in the garage!

[Jeff Hail]

Originally Posted by Pat_in_L.A.

He's either buying a 917, another truck, or a primered Corvette!

Pretty funny Pat. Good one!

No- Chris is going the Pyle route....."surprise, surprise, surprise".

If you check the photo taken of his 911 in his livingroom another special vehicle is visible in the background behind the kitchen table. It's the the subject of a completely new thread.

"What ever happened to the Mulholland Elsinore 50"?

[Banning]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hail

Pretty funny Pat. Good one!

No- Chris is going the Pyle route....."surprise, surprise, surprise".

If you check the photo taken of his 911 in his livingroom another special vehicle is visible in the background behind the kitchen table. It's the the subject of a completely new thread.

"What ever happened to the Mulholland Elsinore 50"?

LOL. Don't give that away yet Jeff.


This week we will again be meeting on Thursday, that's tomorrow evening at Truckstop at around 8:00pm. Please join in on the fun. It might be cool this week on Mulholland in the evening so you might want to have warm clothes,(shorts and a wet t-shirt probably won't cut it). Jeff and I have a surprize to make the evening more fun and cavalier. We are always talking about how much great information is exchanged about cars, Porsches, Racecars, Mulholland driving, and much more. It seems to be a good time for everyone. Hope to see you there.

[vntgspd]

I plan to make the trip up from Orange County for one of these "meetings" in the near future. Unfortunately, I have Wed. and Thurs. commitments until the end of August so don't get burned out guys - pace yourselves!

Cheers.

[Retrorick]

I will be in the area this next week. My band has been hired by the Gene Autry Museum to perform for Gene's 100th birthday celebration. Venues include The Autry Museum, Graumann's Chinese Theatre, Angels' stadium, Melody Ranch and the 94th Aero Squadron restaurant at Van Nuys. Looks like Wed or Thurs nights are kinda slack.
I will be staying in San Fernando, and hope that Neil or Vic (SSB) can give me ride up the hill. Would love to meet you guys. If you want, check out our website:http://www.texastrailhands.com or if you have 1/2 hour to kill, here is a TV show taped in Dallas this spring. (audio is wonky)http://www.texasbroadcastingnetwork.co/trailhands.htm
Hope to meet you guys soon.
Retrorick

[SteveB on Mul]

I'll be there.

- Steve B

[911 in SC]

As much as I'd love to make it, I don't think I'll be there this week...Google maps says that it's only 2,342 mi – about 1 day 11 hours from my house

Thanks for great stories and memories! I helps me understand the 'mystique' behind Mulholland, and I've never been west of Arizona. I also have a better understanding of why I thought it would be cool to grow up in So Cal. Instead, I grew up in So. Car.

Mike

[Banning]

From 1967, this Porsche Type 910 lofts over the hill at "Brunnchen on the Ring".

[Banning]

Peter Gregg produced this modified tail for his RSR after IMSA banned the original long tail. It was tested at Daytona in October 1975 but never raced with this configuration.

Radu, what do you think of this tail?

[Banning]

The famous car designer Nuccio Bertone of Turin, Italy crafted this artistic roadster based on the 911 chassis and drivetrain. It was displayed at the Geneva Show in 1966 and was a tour de force, a masterful blending of Italian flair with German quality.

Too bad this Porsche remained a one-off car. Porsche announced in the fall of 1965 that they had a convertible of their own, the Targa, which it finally put into production in the fall of 1966

[Banning]

The first new engine developed for the Type 695(911), was a six cylinder motor with twin cooling fans. Very unique even by todays standards.

[Banning]

The prototype body(Type 695) styled by Butzi Porsche gave 2+2 styling(about 1961). This car's front end was carried over to the 911.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Banning

The first new engine developed for the Type 695(911), was a six cylinder motor with twin cooling fans. Very unique even by todays standards.

It would be cool to find and install that twin fan setup on more modern 911, say... mine

[Jeff Hail]

Since we are off on a Porsche tangent today and Chris has been courteous to share some rare Porsche's I might as well chime in:

Another rare (really really rare P-Car) is the 914/8. What makes this car so special? How about a 908 3.0 Liter Flat 8 stuffed in the mid-section.

Here is the 908 Flat 8 packed into a 1700lb race car


The difference's in a stock 914 versus the 914/8 from the outside.








This version is very different than the 914/6 2 liter cars that were produced.
The 914/8 shared the engine that powered the venerable 908 which ultimately became the 917 (lengthened chassis with the flat 12). Only 2 914/8's were produced. The first was instigated by Ferdinand Piech with the 908 motor packing 310HP at 9000 RPM. The second was built as a gift to Ferry Porsche on his 60th birthday which now resides in the Porsche museum.

Here are a couple of 908's in action:



Yeeeeeee Hawwwwwww!


Funny thing about the 914. The factory really didnt push its potential being it was a joint venture between VW and Porsche (body by Karmann). It had more important interests at the time namely developement of the 911. Like all manufacturers they limit the lessor models as to not compete with its flagships.

Purest's never excepted the 914 as a real Porsche. The fact is a 914/6 of the same year as the 911 , both with 2.0 engines will out excellerate, out brake, and handle better than its brethren with the correct setup. Why? Because its mass is in the middle not the rear and its 400 pounds lighter. Then we have the 916GT which came with either the 2.4 or 2.7 liter motor from the Carrera. Only 11 prototypes of the 916GT were built.

The 914 was replaced in the lineup by the 924 which we will not discuss here (ever).

[Pat_in_L.A.]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hail

The 914 was replaced in the lineup by the 924 which we will not discuss here (ever).

Thank you. I'll save my one 924 story for some future meeting. It wasn't very flattering anyways.

[Banning]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hail

Since we are off on a Porsche tangent today and Chris has been courteous to share some rare Porsche's I might as well chime in:

Another rare (really really rare P-Car) is the 914/8. What makes this car so special? How about a 908 3.0 Liter Flat 8 stuffed in the mid-section.
Funny thing about the 914. The factory really didnt push its potential being it was a joint venture between VW and Porsche (body by Karmann). It had more important interests at the time namely developement of the 911. Like all manufacturers they limit the lessor models as to not compete with its flagships.

Purest's never excepted the 914 as a real Porsche. The fact is a 914/6 of the same year as the 911 , both with 2.0 engines will out excellerate, out brake, and handle better than its brethren with the correct setup. Why? Because its mass is in the middle not the rear and its 400 pounds lighter. Then we have the 916GT which came with either the 2.4 or 2.7 liter motor from the Carrera. Only 11 prototypes of the 916GT were built.

The 914 was replaced in the lineup by the 924 which we will not discuss here (ever).

I think it's important to remember that in Europe the 914 had the words Volkswagen 914 on the back and were produced at the Volkswagen plant. The VW marque was deleted on the 914 for the American market so as to increase its value. With the exception of the 914-6, the 916, and the 914-8, all 914's are basically VW's. There is nothing wrong with that. Dr. Porsche is the father of Volkswagen and all his cars, including VW's are superior in quality to almost anything else. In my opinion Volkswagen is almost as famous as Porsche, just look at how they changed the world, made little indestructable cars and trucks, covered the globe, and made dune buggys, baja bugs, sand rails, and so much more. I remember when every other car was a VW, or so it seemed in the 60,s.

The "peoples car" or "Volkswagen" in German was commisioned by Adolph Hitler. This may not be very popular. However the cornerstone of the new Volkswagen plant was laid by Hitler on May 26, 1938. On the eve of World War II, Dr. Porsche presented the Volkswagen to Hitler as a birthday gift. Remember Hitler wanted to rule the world and his plans were for everyone to drive one of these "peoples car". Luckily for the world, he lost the war, but the VW and Porsche marque lived on and still lives today thank goodness. Porsche and Volkswagen may be the only positive things that we got from that terrible era in German history.

Note: Please no one be offended by these facts of history, that's all they are.

Here is Dr. Porsche presenting the Volkswagen to Adolph Hitler in 1938.

[Banning]

Check this out, the PCA is having a great Concours event the weekend after next in Marina Del Rey. See the details below. If you are not a member already, here's a good reason to join the club, and come anyway even if you are not a member. See what it's all about.

It's going to be lots of fun. I know a few friends that are going and the cars, food and weather will be great. If you love Porsches, you might consider going to this event. See you there.


The Auto Gallery and PCA-LA invite you to participate in our Zone 8 Concours d'Elegance, "Porsches at the Park." The venue is fabulous and the weather should be perfect.

Date: Sunday, August 12, 2007
Where: Burton Chace Park, 13650 Mindanao Way, Marina del Rey
Time: Car placement begins at 7:30 a.m. Judging begins at 10:00 am.
Cost: Judged classes - $55 ($50 if registration form and check are received by August 8, 2007).
Park and Display - $40.
All entries include one lunch ticket. Additional lunches are $15 each.

Menu:
"All you can eat!" Baby Back Ribs, Tri-Tip, Barbequed Chicken, Salads, Bread and Drinks.

For registration and inquiries, please contact Bob Gordon, Activities Director, at 818-888-7224