Raising minimum wage...how is this supposed to help?

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by SlowToady
.

Hell, the raise might even encourage your guys to work harder, produce more in less time, and save you money, or make you more.

Why would it do that, you give them a raise for no reason, where is the motivation?? Why hasn't anyone answered Pat's question

How many people do you know that only make MW??

And 14 year olds don't count!!

Slowtoad, are you a business owner, do you have any stake in any businesses??
If you worked 2 jobs to go to college, went withouth to save, took the risk to start a business and invested your time and cash, you would understand!!

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
So your point is that minimum wage increases are to keep up with inflation?

Rick, in my view, it is.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally posted by SlowToady
Also, I think I made a point of saying that about 80-90% of the increase in wages is spent, at various venues, and might even balance things out, as a whole. And that about 10-20% of it will be saved, increasing the amount of money available to lending institutions with which to increase the money supply.

Since I'm obvioulsy a dolt, what's the "ding ding ding next step" program for that?

Well the thing that you sorta left out of your scenario is that the guys at the movie theatre that your newly rich minimum wage earner goes to make.....minimum wage. Thus the very services these folks might be interested in like movies, fast food, Target, Walmart, gas, groceries all employ minimum wage workers and thus those companies incur increased costs.

That's the whole problem, the rising tide raises all boats. What we really should be talking about is buying power which stays the same with minimum wage increases. The proof of this is the statistics on poverty in America which have not changed despite 12 minimum wage increases.

Not to mention that the idea that the poor are the ones making minimum wage is false. Most people making minimum wage are younger kids, less than half are the primary breadwinner for the family.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
Rick, in my view, it is.

Ok, well that I can stomach then. Let's just not delude ourselves into thinking that we are actually helping these people move out of the lower class...

Not to mention that you could then say that minimum wage increases actually encourage further inflation...never ending loop, eh?

[lendaddy]

And Rick, those that are head-of-household on minimum wage are tips earners(largely), and the tips dwarf the hourly rate.

[lendaddy]

And I'm not sure who asked earlier, but they wanted to know what we thought the free market would set a minimum wage at. Well the answer is: Not only would there not be a minimum wage, there would be jobs people would pay to have.

[Jim Richards]

OK Rick, which first, the COLA or inflation? The chicken or the egg?

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by lendaddy
And Rick, those that are head-of-household on minimum wage are tips earners(largely), and the tips dwarf the hourly rate.

Very true, and it isn't even MW, it is $3.80 an hour, they are to report their tips for tax (I know many who clear $15 to $20 an hour) but the owner has to pay tax (at least in FL.) on MW, i.e. double tax.

[MichiganMat]

I just love hearing Porsche owners talk about throwing away the minimum wage, the irony nearly brings a tear to my eye.

[SlowToady]

Slowtoad, are you a business owner, do you have any stake in any businesses??
If you worked 2 jobs to go to college, went withouth to save, took the risk to start a business and invested your time and cash, you would understand!!

Since we're getting personal, why not?

No, I don't own a "legal" business. I merely do free-lance work for anyone paying. Do I have a stake in any businesses? Yes, yes I do. My stake is that if they fail, I don't get paid anymore. That part would suck. So, while I don't OWN a stake in any businesses, I have a vested interest in seeing them succeed.

If I worked 2 jobs? I do, and it's nothing new to me. I'm working for a few different companies right now, actually, in addition to being enrolled full time at the University of Kentucky, in a major that takes more than a pulse to graduate in. I might be taking over part control (about half) in a webhosting company that jump started the online Adult Entertainment businesses. I've done work for this company before, and they're a great bunch of people to work for. With any luck, I'll be managing a few hundred sites.

And, no, I haven't started my own business yet, but I have every intention of doing so in a few years. I'm thinking of starting a tow company, it's a cash cow if you know what you're doing and you have good connections. Or I'm thinking of a data-mining company, which would allow me to utilize my major more directly. Or, my best friend is going to get his CPA, and we're thinking we can work together: I'll do Risk Analysis and what not, and he'll do the accounting. Possibilities are endless.

I've worked full time since I was 14 (which, since I'm only in college I guess isn't too long, all things considered) and saved as much money as I could. I had about $8K in the bank, a 944, a nice Trek, and $1000 in my sock drawer by 18 @ $6 an hour. Got kicked out and it all got spend staying afloat. Life's a *****, isn't it?

Get off your high horse, Byron, you're not the only person that has had to work and suffer. And you're damned sure not the last.

[SlowToady]

And, Len, I read some Economic articles in JSTOR and other places, and it seems that the jury is out on whether or not Wage Increase lead to Productivity Increases such that the Wage Increase pays for itself. So I'm not sure who's wrong and who's right, but apparently the experts can't agree.

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by SlowToady
And, Len, I read some Economic articles in JSTOR and other places, and it seems that the jury is out on whether or not Wage Increase lead to Productivity Increases such that the Wage Increase pays for itself. So I'm not sure who's wrong and who's right, but apparently the experts can't agree.

Fair enough, It's not a big deal. I should be doing research anyway

[Jim Richards]

Judging by the time you spend here, you must have plenty of free time.

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by SlowToady
[B]

Since we're getting personal, why not?

No, I don't own a "legal" business. I merely do free-lance work for anyone paying. Do I have a stake in any businesses? Yes, yes I do. My stake is that if they fail, I don't get paid anymore. That part would suck. So, while I don't OWN a stake in any businesses, I have a vested interest in seeing them succeed.

If I worked 2 jobs? I do, and it's nothing new to me. I'm working for a few different companies right now, actually, in addition to being enrolled full time at the University of Kentucky, in a major that takes more than a pulse to graduate in. I might be taking over part control (about half) in a webhosting company that jump started the online Adult Entertainment businesses. I've done work for this company before, and they're a great bunch of people to work for. With any luck, I'll be managing a few hundred sites.

And, no, I haven't started my own business yet, but I have every intention of doing so in a few years. I'm thinking of starting a tow company, it's a cash cow if you know what you're doing and you have good connections. Or I'm thinking of a data-mining company, which would allow me to utilize my major more directly. Or, my best friend is going to get his CPA, and we're thinking we can work together: I'll do Risk Analysis and what not, and he'll do the accounting. Possibilities are endless.

I've worked full time since I was 14 (which, since I'm only in college I guess isn't too long, all things considered) and saved as much money as I could. I had about $8K in the bank, a 944, a nice Trek, and $1000 in my sock drawer by 18 @ $6 an hour. Got kicked out and it all got spend staying afloat. Life's a *****, isn't it?

Get off your high horse, Byron, you're not the only person that has had to work and suffer. And you're damned sure not the last.

Come talk to use in 20 years after you have found out what we really have to do to build and expand business. I earned mine, so why should others who aren't willing to do what it takes be rewarded for being failures!! See, you have no clue how hard we work to start and build a business on our own, you have never had to make payrole or office lease, so you have worked for others, you don't have the responsabilities we have. High horse, hell I worked my ass off with years of hard work to climb up. I hope you get that towing biz, so you can see what it really cost to run a biz, how many hours you have to put in when it is your name on the line.

[Jim Richards]

Byron, you still hung over from the Gators NC?

[lendaddy]

Originally posted by Jim Richards
Judging by the time you spend here, you must have plenty of free time.

Instead of hobbies, I have this place.... man am I pathetic.

[Superman]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
So your point is that minimum wage increases are to keep up with inflation?

I thought your point was the the poor people in America need the increase to get by. Any response to the fact that the poverty level in America has not changed despite 12 minimum wage increases?

If your goal is to reduce poverty by raising the wages of those making minimum wage, wouldn't you expect that to have occurred with past raises?

My point is that the minimum wage, despite twelve increases, has fallen. It is a LOWER wage now than it was when it was $2.00 in 1973. You are pretending it has increased, and asking why this policy has failed. It's very simple. Draw whatever conclusions you like about the impact of a minimum wage REDUCTION. Don't pretend it has been increasing.

[Superman]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad

Most people making minimum wage are younger kids, less than half are the primary breadwinner for the family.

Bull****. We have been over this before. We have drug out the stats. This notion that the typical minimum wage earner is a minor is MYTHOLOGY. It is factually untrue.

[Superman]

Here is a scary thought for you guys: Labor leaders have a fantasy dream. They know it won't come true, but they fall asleep sometimes thinking of how fantastic it would be for them and their labor unions if it did come true. The dream? The dream is that the gubmit would get out of the business of regulating the employment relationship.

Think about that.

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by Superman
My point is that the minimum wage, despite twelve increases, has fallen. It is a LOWER wage now than it was when it was $2.00 in 1973. You are pretending it has increased, and asking why this policy has failed. It's very simple. Draw whatever conclusions you like about the impact of a minimum wage REDUCTION. Don't pretend it has been increasing.

Supe, I know we don't agree on anything but women & cars, but if you are ever in the area, I would love to get together over drinks, remember, I did grow up in an old school Union household and got to know the founder of the NMU Joe Curran.