What's going on at VA Tech?

[red-beard]

No. I'm a Gun Nut. Get it right.

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by dmoolenaar

Anything, including a car, a knive, or a pencil can be used to kill. It happens that these devices are not designed primarily for killing so while able to do so in the right setting are not that effective.

Does the design or intent make anyone less dead? Show me where gun laws have reduced violence. Come visit me in DC. I'll show you areas where all guns are banned that you wouldn't want to enter without a military expeditionary force.

[svandamme]

horrible.

[red-beard]

I expect that the guy did NOT have a CHL

He is also carrying a weapon in a weapon free zone

Threatening people is illegal

Shooting people is definitely illegal

Killing people is illegal

Killing yourself is illegal

Any other laws this guy broke?

[Rick Lee]

This guy was committing felonies before he fired the first shot. No laws stop people like this.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
Does the design or intent make anyone less dead? Show me where gun laws have reduced violence. Come visit me in DC. I'll show you areas where all guns are banned that you wouldn't want to enter without a military expeditionary force.

I'm in DC 8-12x a year so next time I'll skip the dangerous area tour and instead meet you at Clydes for a drink or two

I'm not arguing for gun control, hell I'm not arguing, unless someone thinks a country with guns (take ours for example) is somehow as safe, or more safe, than a country w/o guns and tough gun laws.

[SlowToady]

Originally posted by dmoolenaar
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. True, however...if this loon had a hammer, or a couple knives, I doubt he would have succeeded in killing/injuring this many people. The sad fact is that anyone can get a gun and there are too many around to start making them illegal. There will always be crazy sick people out to harm others. IMO guns make events like this all too easy. It's one thing to kill with a knife (takes guts and some degree of effort) but a gun removes all the personal contact.

If you think it doesn't take any guts to look someone in the eyes, while you have them lined up against a wall, and shoot them, watching their head explode in a pink misty cloud of brain matter, blood and shards of bone, and then see their brains and blood smeared across the wall, you're simply out of your ****ing mind. Oh yea, then repeat a few times.

This is NOT the movies people, when you shoot someone point blank, things, especially heads, explode. It is very, very messy.

Also, as to it being EASY to pull a trigger, I've talked to combat vets who initially couldn't pull the trigger WHILE BEING SHOT AT IN A COMBAT SITUATION. Pulling a trigger, especially on an unarmed person, is no easy task, don't let Holly Weird deceive you.

Edit:

No, this isn't mean to be as combative as it sounds...

[red-beard]

Originally posted by dmoolenaar
I'm in DC 8-12x a year so next time I'll skip the dangerous area tour and instead meet you at Clydes for a drink or two

I'm not arguing for gun control, hell I'm not arguing, unless someone thinks a country with guns (take ours for example) is somehow as safe, or more safe, than a country w/o guns and tough gun laws.

CHL holders are about 2% of the population, at least here in Texas. Rick will have better numbers for VA. By that percentage, at least one of the students killed or wounded would have had a firearm. And there were a lot more people in that building, so the chance is there would have been a much higher number.

What did we have? A situation where the law abiding citizens are NOT ALLOWED to protect thier own life. They can obey, run or play dead. If some of the students or professors had been armed, it still would have been horrible. Just not this horrible.

[msk1986911]

Originally posted by david914
Absolute tragedy. I'm bracing myself for the political fallout though. This is just more ammunition (pun intended) for the anti-gun crowd.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

But it's easier when you have a gun and a death wish.

My condolences to those affected by this senseless tragedy.

[Rick Lee]

Pretty sure a sign banning CCW cannot make you a criminal in VA. It can make you a trespasser, but only if you refuse to leave when asked. I know for sure I can legally carry openly or concealed in any state gov't. bldg. except a courthouse or school. I have carried in DMV before. It's totally legal. And I sometimes carry in restaurants where alcohol is served, which is a misdemeanor, but I don't drink when I do so.

[M.D. Holloway]

any more updates? You guys are my media who I have boycotted - anyone who messes up the details here will hear about it form the rest. You guys are better than the networks!

[Rick Lee]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
any more updates? You guys are my media who I have boycotted - anyone who messes up the details here will hear about it form the rest. You guys are better than the networks!

Well, I work for a news agency and I'm sure many of our clients will have commentary for us to send out to the AP. I can't stand to read most of it. Am listening to the press conf. on CNN now and, as expected, it's a bunch of incredibly ignorant journalists asking questions that the chief of police is declining to answer. Stuff like this really makes me want to carry more often than I do. But it's just such a PITA sometimes. Luckily, cops in VA are about as gun-friendly as they come.

[red-beard]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
And I sometimes carry in restaurants where alcohol is served, which is a misdemeanor, but I don't drink when I do so.

Why don't you open carry in the restaurants?

[tabs]

If U watch the Video that CNN is playing you can hear 27 shots, this guy was taking his time and aiming...there were a few shots and then abit of silence and a flurry of shots...probably when he opened the door on the next class room....

[Rick V]

My wife and I both carry. When people ask us why, I always answer, "Do you watch the news?"
I'm not saying if I were there I could have stopped the nut but, I could have made him pay alot of attention to me and not the unarmed.
Have you ever noticed the nicest people you will ever meet are at the range?

[Moneyguy1]

Again....the duels between advocates and the rest of the world.

Frankly, as I have posted before, I am NOT in favor of banning firearms, nor am I in favor of legislation that makes it impossible to own same.

What I AM tired of is the asinine mantra of : "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." That may be true, but if anyone with a modicum of common sense reads the knee jerk responses that "NOW I'm gonna start to carry" you can see the fear that proliferation breeds. Is Lott correct that if everyone carried, things would be more civil and peaceful? For some reason, I seriously doubt that would be the case. THere is always going to be the crackpot who will get his hands on a firearm and do damage. I shudder to think how many more victims there might have been if the students were also armed, firing at whoever they thought was the perp.

I do not agree that it is universally difficult for someone to kill with a firearm. Unless your intended victim is similarly armed, the physical damage to you as the shooter is nil. There is a physical, emotional and psychological disconnect. Hand to hand combat involves risk to both parties; an armed individual against one who is not armed is a one sided contest.

"Guns do not kill people. People with easy access to guns kill people."

I have wondered about the trouble spots in the world where firearms really do proliferate. Seems as if in these places the death tolls are pretty high, relatively speaking. Anyone have any independently gathered data on this?

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by red-beard
I expect that the guy did NOT have a CHL

He is also carrying a weapon in a weapon free zone

Threatening people is illegal

Sorry..... but I find this "weapon free zone" thing you all keep bringing up is stupid. Have any of these shootings been at a "weapons OK zone?"

Sorry, I'm all for weapons free zones. i wouldn't want to sit next to the guy who can't get his reports issued knowing he has a gun in the desk any more than I'd want my kids going to school with people having guns in the bookbag.

I'm not anti-gun, I hang with Rick, even. But I'm more, anti-gun in places where I shouldn't have to expect guns. Work, schools, etc. If I go to the rough part of town, I know that I am literally outgunned and plan accordingly.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by SlowToady
If you think it doesn't take any guts to look someone in the eyes, while you have them lined up against a wall, and shoot them, watching their head explode in a pink misty cloud of brain matter, blood and shards of bone, and then see their brains and blood smeared across the wall, you're simply out of your ****ing mind. Oh yea, then repeat a few times.

What I'm curious about is what he did after shooting the two in the dorm? Was he planning this all along, or the aftereffect of the first shotting. What did he do for 2 hours? Have coffee, surf the net? It's curious to know the thought pattern here... surely not rational.

[Aurel]

Guns are like SUVs: When everybody has one, you`re better off having one too if you want to stand any chance of survival in a hit. It is just a vicious circle.

Aurel

[YTNUKLR]

The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers:
Little we see in Nature that is ours;
We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon! 4
This Sea that bares her bosom to the moon;
The winds that will be howling at all hours,
And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers;
For this, for everything, we are out of tune; 8
It moves us not.--Great God! I'd rather be
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;
So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,
Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn; 12
Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;
Or hear old Triton blow his wreathed horn.

--William Wordsworth