When did being "liberal" become a bad thing?
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Todd, I am not judging anyone, I just cannot get my mind around someone not beliving in the Christian god yet, celebrating all of the assiciated holidays.

It seems to me some one so dead set against Christianity would want nothing to do with anything the church teaches, including holidays.

You are 100% correct though and I find it fascinating, that people celebrate holidays and throw away their convictions for a day of fun. Just because everyone else is doing it.

I guess my dad really got through to me growing up, he always said, just because everyone else is doing it does it make it right?

I am not trying to be pompus here, but an Athiest is someone who does not believe in god, an exact opposite of a christian yet on certain days they are all the same.

I don't usually enter the fray here in OT.

why do you fear god? I could snip and post a bunch of your quotes that don't make any sense to a rational thinking man

If there is a god Id like to be able to bounce a question off him on occasion..

fear him? never....and your associating religions and politics is ... I'm at a loss... narrow minded? juvenile? uneducated?

you seem to love to paint a broad stroke by calling people "libs"

we have a troll here..

they're both humans 365 days a year...

I have Jewish friends who celebrate on the 25th. I don't see the hypocrisy. It doesn't have anything to do with convictions. It has become a cultural holiday that is pretty much devoid of religious content.

The church doesn't teach about trees and ornaments and wrapping paper. So how is taking part in that going along with religion?

I'm not sure where you live, but here we celebrate all kinds of things that we don't "believe" in.

We celebrate the lunar new year in a serious way - but we're not Chinese. We celebrate Deepavali with our Hindu friends - but we're not Hindu. My Jewish neighbour always has us round for a very nice meal at Haunuka - and I'm, not Jewish. Hell, my brother and I celebrate the anniversary of his divorce every year - even though I was quite fond of his ex-wife.

What's the big deal?

Nothing ironic here. Nothing weird.

I am sorry for you, especially today, that you not only lack the understanding of the intent of the Founding Fathers of America, but also appear to lack the desire to understand what all of these great men were thinking over 200 years ago.

Here you can read exactly what TJ wrote, in his own words:
http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/j#a1638

It is you, sir, who is painting this Country as something that it is clearly not, nor was ever intended to be.

Best,

Kurt

Why do I fear god? Have you ever been to church?

God-Fearing Having a reverential and loving feeling towards God; religious.

Why don't you follow his rules? You love him, fear him and respect him, yes?

Is it that difficult to wait until you are married to have sex?

You're not showing much fear, respect or love to your god.

All I see is a big hypocrite who uses his religion as a convenient tool.

Kurt

Last I checked the Puritans settled this country seeking religious freedom.

The first successful English colony was founded at Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607. A few years later, English Puritans came to America to escape religious persecution for their opposition to the Church of England. In 1620, the Puritans founded Plymouth Colony in what later became Massachusetts. Plymouth was the second permanent British settlement in North America and the first in New England.

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/factover/ch3.htm

"You're not showing much fear, respect or love to your god."
"Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone"
We are all sinners.

That's good, Lee! But it's a big leap from being a liberal by definition to being a Democrat. :)

I don't associate with either party's doctrine 100% and consider myself having both liberal and conservative views, as defined by the dictionary.

That's why Tony looks so foolish, and you have made a great point!

Happy Fourth, folks, and if you are not too busy, read some Thomas Jefferson. I've learned a lot and have been enlightened - these guys were fricken smart.

Best,

Kurt

Ha!!! Got me. :rolleyes:

You're a funny dude.

You claim to Know so much about the constitution. How could you not know that most of its core values come directly from biblical scripture?

The United States Constitution is a covenant document, that is, based on the Christian concept of covenant, whose drafters professed a belief in the Christian God and in whose drafting God's providence was invoked by them.

http://www.legislature.state.al.us/SearchableInstruments/2007RS/Bills/HB482.htm

Come on Atheist/libs this all you got? Looks like someone cant admit when their wrong. Yes we are a nation founded on Christan beliefs.

don't get me involved in this. just because i'm an athiest doesn't mean i have any problem about what others decide to believe in, and neither should you, as a humble forgiving religious person. there's lots of "gods" out there, so everyone can deal with the one that suits their fancy. or not. new gods and new religions pop up every day. right now i'm into ratrods. have a nice day!

Sorry for the confusion. Wrong John Walker...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh

yes actually many times

from being an alter boy to witnessing my uncle ascending from a priest to a canon

and stop your response right there in its track... Ive learned from these many devoted religious people in my life to look and learn.. we are not all perfect. The people who are highly stationed in the church look and learn from others..what cracks me up is you paint a political hue to all this..

Its all gray... think.... try it sometime.. instead of blatanly spouting your vitriol

I'm well versed in what the church wants you to believe.... and I also am a thinking man.. I don't really give a hoot what people think about me which obviously matters to you...

snip and qoute this at your leisure

that was tongue in cheek by the way. open your mind a little more.

I don't take anything for granted on this BB. You could have just as easily had really not known who John walker Lindh is.

Well, at least you are using Google now.

The folks who started up America were escaping rule by the monarchy and the Church of England. This is one reason that they so strongly believed and stressed in writing that the Government should not interfere with the freedom of, or from, religion . . . and that both Government and "Religion" would be corrupted by this intermingling. If you read a little deeper you will see this is a major topic of Jefferson's and other founders' writings and that I am not just making this up!

The Founding Father's were also "deists" and not "theists". They were products of the Enlightenment movement which was based on reason, critical thinking and science. A deist does believe in a god, but does not accept, like the theist, that god plays an active role performing miracles and other supernatural acts.

I am not arguing that Christianity didn't play a major role in drafting the early documents of this Country, nor I have ever made such an argument. The point that you and many other religious folks are missing is that Jefferson and crew had a good reason (England!) why they strongly wanted to keep the practice or non-practice of religion free and to keep religion separate from government.

This should be self-evident to anyone who simply reads a little history, what the Founding Dudes actually wrote, and stops listening to the talking heads (all of them!) who have an agenda.

FWIW.

Best,

Kurt

*Edited for various usage and punctuation errors made in this hasty writing!*