Scientist burns salt water

[rammstein]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296395,00.html

VERY cool stuff. I love hearing about discoveries like this! One of these days, energy is going to become VERY cheap, and the world will be revolutionized. This will happen because of SCIENCE, not legislation.

[island911]

WOW cold fussion is real!

no, really, pulling apart H₂O into H's and O's (and letting them come back together to burn) is nothing new.

In fact, I think there is a law about how that works.

[rammstein]

True, but isn't this the first time its been done through this method?

BTW- thanks for using my green for sarcasm trick- it makes me happy that I have had some type of impact on the world

[Evans, Marv]

Is this another cold fusion type thing ???

[competentone]

Originally Posted by rammstein

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296395,00.html

VERY cool stuff. I love hearing about discoveries like this! One of these days, energy is going to become VERY cheap, and the world will be revolutionized. This will happen because of SCIENCE, not legislation.

Read the article a little more closely. The "inventor" is "a specialist in 'whole person healing' and Christian sexuality" (What the he!! is "christian sexuality"? Is that something different than "human sexuality"?)

He is also looking for government funding for his "research" -- he might just get it from the Bush administration! He's not likely to be getting funding from the private sector since it sounds like he is a crack-pot.

________________________________

Pennsylvania Man Claims to Burn Salt Water
Tuesday , September 11, 2007

ERIE, Pa. —

An Erie, Pa., cancer researcher says he has found a way to burn salt water, a novel invention that is being touted by a retired chemistry professor as the "most remarkable" water science discovery in a century.

John Kanzius says he happened upon the discovery accidentally when he tried to desalinate seawater with a radio-frequency generator he says he developed to treat cancer. He discovered that as long as the salt water was exposed to the radio frequencies, it would burn.

The discovery has scientists excited by the prospect of using salt water, the most abundant resource on earth, as a fuel.

Rustum Roy, a Penn State University emeritus professor of chemistry, has held demonstrations at his State College, Pa., lab to confirm his own observations.

[Roy is also a specialist in "whole person healing" and Christian sexuality.]

The radio frequencies act to weaken the bonds between the elements that make up salt water, releasing the hydrogen, Roy said. Once ignited, the hydrogen will burn as long as it is exposed to the frequencies, he said.

The discovery is "the most remarkable in water science in 100 years," Roy said.

"This is the most abundant element in the world. It is everywhere," Roy said. "Seeing it burn gives me the chills."

Roy will meet this week with officials from the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense to try to obtain research funding.

Roy says the scientists want to find out whether the energy output from the burning hydrogen — which reached a heat of more than 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit — would be enough to power a car or other heavy machinery.

"We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it leads," Roy said. "The potential is huge."

[Internet commentary upon Kanzius and Roy's assertion points out that creating fire from salt water is possible by first separating it into hydrogen, oxygen, sodium and chloride, then burning the sodium. However, such a process would consume much more energy than it produces.]

[island911]

The method used isn't so important unless it uses less energy. But those Laws of Physics say that you need a very specific amount of energy to pluck those molecules apart.

[nostatic]

it's no water memory...

[kach22i]

http://www.carnuts.us/viewtopic.php?t=1120

New process generates hydrogen from aluminum alloy to run engines, fuel cells



Purdue researchers demonstrate their method for producing hydrogen by adding water to an alloy of aluminum and gallium. The hydrogen could then be used to run an internal combustion engine. The reaction was discovered by Jerry Woodall, center, a distinguished professor of electrical and computer engineering. Charles Allen, holding test tube, and Jeffrey Ziebarth, both doctoral students in the School of Electrical and Computer Engineering, are working with Woodall to perfect the process. (Purdue News Service photo/David Umberger)


A Purdue University engineer has developed a method that uses an aluminum alloy to extract hydrogen from water for running fuel cells or internal combustion engines, and the technique could be used to replace gasoline.

The method makes it unnecessary to store or transport hydrogen - two major challenges in creating a hydrogen economy, said Jerry Woodall, a distinguished professor of electrical and computer engineering at Purdue who invented the process.

"The hydrogen is generated on demand, so you only produce as much as you need when you need it," said Woodall, who presented research findings detailing how the system works during a recent energy symposium at Purdue.

The technology could be used to drive small internal combustion engines in various applications, including portable emergency generators, lawn mowers and chain saws. The process could, in theory, also be used to replace gasoline for cars and trucks, he said.

Hydrogen is generated spontaneously when water is added to pellets of the alloy, which is made of aluminum and a metal called gallium. The researchers have shown how hydrogen is produced when water is added to a small tank containing the pellets. Hydrogen produced in such a system could be fed directly to an engine, such as those on lawn mowers.

"When water is added to the pellets, the aluminum in the solid alloy reacts because it has a strong attraction to the oxygen in the water," Woodall said.

This reaction splits the oxygen and hydrogen contained in water, releasing hydrogen in the process.

The gallium is critical to the process because it hinders the formation of a skin normally created on aluminum's surface after oxidation. This skin usually prevents oxygen from reacting with aluminum, acting as a barrier. Preventing the skin's formation allows the reaction to continue until all of the aluminum is used.

The Purdue Research Foundation holds title to the primary patent, which has been filed with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and is pending. An Indiana startup company, AlGalCo LLC., has received a license for the exclusive right to commercialize the process.

The research has been supported by the Energy Center at Purdue's Discovery Park, the university's hub for interdisciplinary research.

"This is exactly the kind of project that suits Discovery Park. It's exciting science that has great potential to be commercialized," said Jay Gore, associate dean of engineering for research, the Energy Center's interim director and the Vincent P. Reilly Professor of Mechanical Engineering.

The research team is made up of electrical, mechanical, chemical and aeronautical engineers, including doctoral students.

Woodall discovered that liquid alloys of aluminum and gallium spontaneously produce hydrogen if mixed with water while he was working as a researcher in the semiconductor industry in 1967. The research, which focused on developing new semiconductors for computers and electronics, led to advances in optical-fiber communications and light-emitting diodes, making them practical for everything from DVD players to automotive dashboard displays. That work also led to development of advanced transistors for cell phones and components in solar cells powering space modules like those used on the Mars rover, earning Woodall the 2001 National Medal of Technology from President George W. Bush.

"I was cleaning a crucible containing liquid alloys of gallium and aluminum," Woodall said. "When I added water to this alloy - talk about a discovery - there was a violent poof. I went to my office and worked out the reaction in a couple of hours to figure out what had happened. When aluminum atoms in the liquid alloy come into contact with water, they react, splitting the water and producing hydrogen and aluminum oxide.

"Gallium is critical because it melts at low temperature and readily dissolves aluminum, and it renders the aluminum in the solid pellets reactive with water. This was a totally surprising discovery, since it is well known that pure solid aluminum does not readily react with water."

The waste products are gallium and aluminum oxide, also called alumina. Combusting hydrogen in an engine produces only water as waste.

"No toxic fumes are produced," Woodall said. "It's important to note that the gallium doesn't react, so it doesn't get used up and can be recycled over and over again. The reason this is so important is because gallium is currently a lot more expensive than aluminum. Hopefully, if this process is widely adopted, the gallium industry will respond by producing large quantities of the low-grade gallium required for our process. Currently, nearly all gallium is of high purity and used almost exclusively by the semiconductor industry."

Woodall said that because the technology makes it possible to use hydrogen instead of gasoline to run internal combustion engines it could be used for cars and trucks. In order for the technology to be economically competitive with gasoline, however, the cost of recycling aluminum oxide must be reduced, he said.

"Right now it costs more than $1 a pound to buy aluminum, and, at that price, you can't deliver a product at the equivalent of $3 per gallon of gasoline," Woodall said.

However, the cost of aluminum could be reduced by recycling it from the alumina using a process called fused salt electrolysis. The aluminum could be produced at competitive prices if the recycling process were carried out with electricity generated by a nuclear power plant or windmills. Because the electricity would not need to be distributed on the power grid, it would be less costly than power produced by plants connected to the grid, and the generators could be located in remote locations, which would be particularly important for a nuclear reactor to ease political and social concerns, Woodall said.

"The cost of making on-site electricity is much lower if you don't have to distribute it," Woodall said.

The approach could enable the United States to replace gasoline for transportation purposes, reducing pollution and the nation's dependence on foreign oil. If hydrogen fuel cells are perfected for cars and trucks in the future, the same hydrogen-producing method could be used to power them, he said.

"We call this the aluminum-enabling hydrogen economy," Woodall said. "It's a simple matter to convert ordinary internal combustion engines to run on hydrogen. All you have to do is replace the gasoline fuel injector with a hydrogen injector."

Even at the current cost of aluminum, however, the method would be economically competitive with gasoline if the hydrogen were used to run future fuel cells.

"Using pure hydrogen, fuel cell systems run at an overall efficiency of 75 percent, compared to 40 percent using hydrogen extracted from fossil fuels and with 25 percent for internal combustion engines," Woodall said. "Therefore, when and if fuel cells become economically viable, our method would compete with gasoline at $3 per gallon even if aluminum costs more than a dollar per pound."

The hydrogen-generating technology paired with advanced fuel cells also represents a potential future method for replacing lead-acid batteries in applications such as golf carts, electric wheel chairs and hybrid cars, he said.

The technology underscores aluminum's value for energy production.

"Most people don't realize how energy intensive aluminum is," Woodall said. "For every pound of aluminum you get more than two kilowatt hours of energy in the form of hydrogen combustion and more than two kilowatt hours of heat from the reaction of aluminum with water. A midsize car with a full tank of aluminum-gallium pellets, which amounts to about 350 pounds of aluminum, could take a 350-mile trip and it would cost $60, assuming the alumina is converted back to aluminum on-site at a nuclear power plant.

"How does this compare with conventional technology? Well, if I put gasoline in a tank, I get six kilowatt hours per pound, or about two and a half times the energy than I get for a pound of aluminum. So I need about two and a half times the weight of aluminum to get the same energy output, but I eliminate gasoline entirely, and I am using a resource that is cheap and abundant in the United States. If only the energy of the generated hydrogen is used, then the aluminum-gallium alloy would require about the same space as a tank of gasoline, so no extra room would be needed, and the added weight would be the equivalent of an extra passenger, albeit a pretty large extra passenger."

The concept could eliminate major hurdles related to developing a hydrogen economy. Replacing gasoline with hydrogen for transportation purposes would require the production of huge quantities of hydrogen, and the hydrogen gas would then have to be transported to filling stations. Transporting hydrogen is expensive because it is a "non-ideal gas," meaning storage tanks contain less hydrogen than other gases.

"If I can economically make hydrogen on demand, however, I don't have to store and transport it, which solves a significant problem," Woodall said.

Source: Purdue University

This news is brought to you by PhysOrg.com

[kach22i]

Denny Klein, from Hydrogen Technologies
http://www.ksbitv.com/hotlinks/2856476.html

Tuesday, May 23, 2006; Posted: 3:10 PM(CDT)

High prices at the pump have left everyone wondering if there's another way to power our cars, trucks and SUV's.

Some people have figured out ways to use vegetable oil, or other products to fuel their vehicles. Well, now there may be a new solution.

It's called "Aquagen." A Florida company is currently testing the new gas, which they make from mixing water and electricity. The process of mixing water with electicity is called electrolysis.

Denny Klein, from Hydrogen Technologies, says he originally planned to use his machine for welding, but when gas prices spiked he decided to try something new in his car.

And now he has a "different" kind of hybrid. His Ford Escort runs on a combination of gas and water. As he drives down the road the water turns to gas, powering the vehicle and using half the normal amount of gasoline.

Here's how it works: The machine runs voltage throughout the water, creating gas. The gas is cooled in another compartment, then dried. Once it's dried, you have a gas that is ready to burn.

What's unusual about Aquagen is that the hydrogen and oxygen stay connected. So you get the atomic power of hydrogen with the chemical stability of water.

Klein says, the water molecule is restructured when a tremendous amount of energy is mixed with a catalyst.

Aquagen stays at a consistent heat until it's mixed with something else, creating a reaction. The gas heats to the melting point of whatever it touches. It can burn a hole through charcoal, slice steel, and turn a brass ball to liquid. It also reacts to gasoline, helping run an engine before turning back to water.

Klein says the technology isn't new. He says others have tried it, but they used so much electricity that their inventions never took off.

But managers at Klein's company think they have improved, maybe even perfected the process.

Klein says, "We estimate it costs around $0.70 per hour to generate, and it produces 1,500 liters of aquagen per hour."

Steve Lusko works for the company, and says since this story first aired they have received calls from technology officers of General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin and the biggest industrial companies in the country."

So a plan that began as welding with water has now turned into a possible fuel that can safely power vehicles.

Watch the Video.

[rammstein]

I love this board sometimes! Interesting observations

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by competentone

Read the article a little more closely. The "inventor" is "a specialist in 'whole person healing' and Christian sexuality" (What the he!! is "christian sexuality"?

It more than likely involves young boys.

[competentone]

Originally Posted by widebody911

It more than likely involves young boys.

LOL!

I think that would only be true, if it's Catholic flavored Christianity.

[sammyg2]

It's hard to type while holding my breath and turning blue.
I like experimentation through science but unfortunately many of us know that while it may be possible in a laboratory, it won't work in real life. It just takes more energy to break the covalent bonds that you get back from the recombining. Even when using a radio-frequency generator.
If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it but until then, color me skeptical.
Professor Roy's career is fraught with controversy. some might say he has vision, others say he's a fringe crackpot. I'd tend to not put much stock into his credibility. He may be right or he may be fishing for a huge grant.

BTW I have seen a fusion reactor up close. About 20 years ago at lawrence Livermore laboratories they had one. I asked about it and was told that it was purely a mock up and would not work based on physics. I asked why they went through the trouble to build one if they knew it couldn't work. "Because the government wanted us to do it and they paid us to do it".

[sammyg2]

Besides, even if these things actually worked it would all be a waste of time.
The big oil companies would just buy the patents and file them away right next to the 200 mpg carburetor

[competentone]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Besides, even if these things actually worked it would all be a waste of time.
The big oil companies would just buy the patents and file them away right next to the 200 mpg carburetor

All the patents on the "200 mpg carburetors" have expired.

For those who don't follow the subject, the real "200 mpg carburetors" are "fuel boilers" -- gasoline is boiled and mixed with air before being introduced into the cylinder. The method's goal is to not "burn" the fuel, but to run an extremely lean mixture and "detonate" the fuel, using the mechanical energy of the detonation (not the "heat expansion" of the burning gasses) to drive the piston in the cylinder. Of course, if you understand that description, then you know it is more than just the "carburetor" that makes the extreme fuel mileage possible -- it is overall motor design and operation at carefully controlled engine speeds (you have to keep the piston moving in unison with the shock-wave of the detonating fuel/air mixture).

[Aerkuld]

I got shown this at work a week or two ago. My first question was "How much energy does the high frequency radio wave generator use?"
No doubt it's cool, but like the others have said above put me in the 'sceptic' catagory for now please.

[GO DAWG GO]

It follows the law of diminished or diminishing returns. Requires more energy to extract that it creates. Energy yield is in the negative side. Not good enough yet...Maybe someday?

[URY914]

I just filled my gas tank with salt water. It didn't run to good afterwards.

[DARISC]

[QUOTE=competentone;3473025] (What the he!! is "christian sexuality"?

No moral sex before marriage?

[kach22i]

Link to old thread:
New fuel source???

Video "Howard Agency" posted on John Kansas an inventor using R.F. to light water on fire...............................

http://www.wewin.com/turns-Salt-Water-into-Auto-Fuel.aspx