US govt spent over $146M to fly 1st class?

[David]

Another reason we can't give up the right to bear arms. When are we going take back our country from these yahoos?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/02/AR2007100202034.html

Federal officials have been flying first class and business class a lot more often than they are supposed to, costing taxpayers about $146 million a year, according to a new Government Accountability Office study.

Congressional investigators analyzed federal agencies' travel records from July 1, 2005, to June 30, 2006, and found that the government spent $230 million on about 53,000 premium-class tickets. In more than two-thirds of the cases, the high-priced travel was not properly authorized or justified, and the officials should have flown coach instead. Investigators blamed the problem on weak internal controls at agencies.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

That's over $4,300 PER TICKET. WTF?!?!

[red-beard]

Yep, that is about right. $4300 per ticket over coach to fly Business Class. I expect that most of the travel was international.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by 125shifter

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/02/AR2007100202034.html

Sen. Norm Coleman (R-Minn.), who requested the investigation, has introduced legislation that would require the executive branch to report business class and first-class travel to Congress every year.

(R-Minn.)

Wow, a republican that gives a **** about spending.

This is news.

[MRM]

I hate government waste as much as the next guy, and I despise people who get fat on the government payroll. But I've also done my share of business travel and I am finding it hard to get too worked up about governement workers who got to travel first class, especially internationally. The cost of all those tickets probably equals the cost of holding hearings into them.

By the way, before Norm was a Republican, he was a Democrat. And before he was making headlines proposing checks on the executive branch he was proud to be the Bush Administration's designated junior water carrier in the Senate. He got some nice committee assignments in large part based on that relationship . That was back in the first term of GW's administration when Norm thought he was riding the wave. Now he's facing a tough re-election campaign and he's not quite as vocal about his inner-circle status. Turns out he was a common sense Washington outsider the whole time.

[onewhippedpuppy]

For guys that vote on their own raises, are you suprised? Whatever happened to public servants?

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by MRM

By the way, before Norm was a Republican, he was a Democrat.

Close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Coleman

Norman Bertram "Norm" Coleman, Jr. (born August 17, 1949) has served as a U.S. Senator from Minnesota since 2003, serving in the 108th, 109th, and 110th congresses. He served as the mayor of Saint Paul, Minnesota from 1994 to 2002. Previously a member of the Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party (DFL), Coleman switched to the Republican Party of Minnesota in 1996. In 1998 he lost a bid for Governor of Minnesota against former professional wrestler Jesse Ventura, a member of the Reform Party of Minnesota, and DFL candidate Hubert H. "Skip" Humphrey III.

[FOG]

Gotta weigh in on this one.

The JFTR (Joint Federal Travel Regulations) is the governing document. There are some inaccuracies/omissions on when one should be upgraded.

By far the biggest waste is buying the tickets last minute even when one puts the request in months ahead of time.

I traveled commercial to North Africa quite a bit. It would normally be under $1,000.00 to go business/1st class CONUS to London then down round trip if purchased a month in advance. The trip usually around ten hours including the transfer Heathrow/Gatwick.

Waiting until later to reserve then schedule the flights ended up over 18 hours of travel (sometimes up to 38 hours of transit time) and the cheapest fare for coach was just under $3,400.00, and having to arrive early thus adding an extra day of lodging and per diem on both ends.

Just purchasing refundable tickets earlier would be much cheaper.

S/F, FOG

[Mule]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

For guys that vote on their own raises, are you suprised? Whatever happened to public servants?

Do you mean us?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by FOG

Gotta weigh in on this one.

The JFTR (Joint Federal Travel Regulations) is the governing document. There are some inaccuracies/omissions on when one should be upgraded.

By far the biggest waste is buying the tickets last minute even when one puts the request in months ahead of time.

I traveled commercial to North Africa quite a bit. It would normally be under $1,000.00 to go business/1st class CONUS to London then down round trip if purchased a month in advance. The trip usually around ten hours including the transfer Heathrow/Gatwick.

Waiting until later to reserve then schedule the flights ended up over 18 hours of travel (sometimes up to 38 hours of transit time) and the cheapest fare for coach was just under $3,400.00, and having to arrive early thus adding an extra day of lodging and per diem on both ends.

Just purchasing refundable tickets earlier would be much cheaper.

S/F, FOG

In my command, Naval Air Systems Command, NO ONE is allowed to purchase a 1st or Business Class ticket unless approved by the commander, a 3 star Admiral even if the JTR allows it. He has yet to approve a waiver.

We can use frequent flier miles to upgrade, but the ticket class is usually so goofy the airlines just laugh.

[on-ramp]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

For guys that vote on their own raises, are you suprised? Whatever happened to public servants?

it's the other way around now

[JavaBrewer]

Last minute travel is a killer. The Govt loves to schedule last minute meetings which can double the ticket price. I have also spent a fortune (repaid with our tax dollars) extending trips, sometimes for a week or more, while we all sit around in a hotel (I'm coding of course...with beer) waiting for a piece of paper that some Govie person forgot to sign before taking PTO...

[FOG]

Seahawk,

The JFTR doesn’t “allow it”, the wording is shall. The order is still violated regularly. Had a three star try and deny some Marines the upgrade, ugly w/congrint and lawyers.

The disgusting thing is waiting to purchase tickets that extent the trip by a couple of days and cost more. Business and 1st class purchased more than a month in advance are usually cheaper than coach purchased with-in one week of the flight.

Flying via BAE they upgrade NATO officers as a perk on most occasions. The treatment on Air France has noticeably improved in the last year or so.

Another anomaly of the JFT is the exclusion of limos. When I travel on my own dime it is often cheaper to have a limo waiting than to find a cab to a destination. Limos are not allowed by the JFTR.

Dmoolenaar,

It is true about last minute travel. He killer is when you know far enough in advance. My example above was traveling to north Africa via London. The difference on our rate between business and coach was less than $50.00 roundtrip if purchased more than 30 days ahead of time. Last minute coach varied between $3,400.00-3,900.00 and usually extended the stay so add in a day or two of lodging and per diem. Additionally when working in a foreign country having to stay and extra day or so may have created a faux paux, which would result in additional flight or expenses.

Lots of stories of those traveling doing the admin/travel officers work to properly schedule then having it screwed up at the last minute.

S/F, FOG

[nostatic]

here's my rant for the day. I traveled to China last May for a project related to a grant I have from a foundation. I am *still* waiting for the reimbursement from my lovely university. They are now saying that biz class travel is not allowed and won't be reimbursed. Um, excuse me but it isn't your f*cking money! And when I flew back in Nov on the same project the foundation reimbursed me directly for biz class as they aren't idiots and know that if you're traveling 14 hours for work the more rested you are the more functional you'll be.

So now I'm either out $4K or I have to get approval from the provost's office. Bastards...

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by FOG

Seahawk,

The JFTR doesn’t “allow it”, the wording is shall. Had a three star try and deny some Marines the upgrade, ugly w/congrint and lawyers.

I'm happy that the Marines got the upgrade due them...try being an 0-6 and make the same argument. That little JFTR stand is a career Waco.

[FOG]

Seahawk,

There were the veiled threats. Congrint and DoD IG make automatic review of next two years FitReps by the DoD IG, and up to five years.

Some 0-6s fight and some don’t. What’s the cost of standing up for what’s right.

Had a supposedly closed door meeting w/ DCSAir and our Wing CG with Capt.s and a few junior Majors prior to the Aviano incident. I was the individual who stood up and told DCSAir and Wing CG they were wrong and the policy was both unsafe and tactically wrong. Capt. FOG was spoken to by a MAG CO on return to the squadron spaces. Aviano and OIF proved us right.

Being on a NAS we deal with the base CO making up “stuff” on a regular basis. We just refuse to sign on to their policies that are violations of DoD, DoN, 3710, 3750, etc.

S/F, FOG

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by FOG

Seahawk,

There were the veiled threats. Congrint and DoD IG make automatic review of next two years FitReps by the DoD IG, and up to five years.

Some 0-6s fight and some don’t. What’s the cost of standing up for what’s right.

Had a supposedly closed door meeting w/ DCSAir and our Wing CG with Capt.s and a few junior Majors prior to the Aviano incident. I was the individual who stood up and told DCSAir and Wing CG they were wrong and the policy was both unsafe and tactically wrong. Capt. FOG was spoken to by a MAG CO on return to the squadron spaces. Aviano and OIF proved us right.

Being on a NAS we deal with the base CO making up “stuff” on a regular basis. We just refuse to sign on to their policies that are violations of DoD, DoN, 3710, 3750, etc.

S/F, FOG

The key is that our local travel folks won't issue orders without the 3 star stamp...you have to make an f'ing passion play to get Business Class.

There is nothing tactically wrong with me flying steerage. I would frankly live to fight other, more egregious polices another day.

If my folks were operational I'd engage.

[avi8torny]

The U.S. Government subsidizes the majority of air carriers. Whether it is with fuel credits, USPS contracts or government travel, the net result is still the same. Subsidies. It should be no surprise that officials that travel, usually travel with some frequency. The fact that a government official flies business class to Europe instead of coach is incidental to what the true cost really is. Many times these tickets are bought at the last minute and have to be approved by someone authorizing costs outside the JFT Regs. I run into this frequently. It is also the norm not to buy a "refundable" ticket because most times it's cheaper to eat it instead of changing it. Notice that the legacy carriers (DAL, UAL etc) still charge ridiculus change fees when companies like LUV or JetBlue don't? The ticket pricing models that these legacy carriers are very propietary....a major contributer to why they are bankrupt. Our contract travel vendor actually steers us away from using LUV, JB and AirTran even though it would save money and time. Now if you are fortunate enough and have authorization, the U.S. government operates a fleet of aircraft, from small twin-engine turboprops to large commercial airliners. Seats on these aircraft are dependant upon who you are on the food chain, who you know on the food chain or fortunate enough to "hop a ride" on the "shuttles" that criss cross the states and the globe on a space available basis. Think about what that costs. The military also does this with it's transport aircraft on a space available for active, inactive reserve, or retired personnel. Nice perk for those who serve, but sometimes space available is no picnic in the park. You could be waiting for days for a spot to open. Hopefully your schedule allows that.

On a side note regarding Gov't spending...at a glance it may seem wasteful and sometimes it is. But it is also dollars that enter the economy. Wayne recommended a short instructional film called "Money as Debt". Google it and you might be surprised that Gov't debt is actually a good thing.

If you still think gov't spends to much of our money, ponder this. Much of the technology we as consumers use have in a way, been paid for by the U.S. Government. Take GPS for example. If the U.S. Military had not spent the research and deployment funds necessary to develop this technology, your Garmin on the dash giving you turn by turn directions would cost more than your average house. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Mostly everything we use and buy that is produced in the states has a connection to technology or manufacturing procedures, plants and equipment bought and paid for by the U.S. Government in some form. Consider that Gov't also subsidizes businesses that employ a workforce that is vital to an area's economy. Could be in the form of grants, tax relief or just cash for the payroll.

So before you get upset about these sensational headlines about government spending, thank them first for your $69 fair to see Mickey.

[snowman]

I hate to fly, period. I can see why anyone, with any nerves in his body would want to fly business class. Why to F would anyone want to subject their selves to total torture and fly coach for just a job??? I do not work for the govt, and I hate high taxes, but flying anything less than business class, international is just plain torture. No one who works for a living should be subjected to less than business class for international flights. No Job is worth that much pain.

[red-beard]

Next question: How much was the total Air Travel spent by the Fed and now lets compare the total to this amount. I expect this is less than 1% of the total expenditure. And while it is a big number, it is peanuts compared to the rest of the budget and regular pork spending.

Why don't we focus on REAL problems instead of this garbage?