Poverty: What's Your Solution

[Shaun @ Tru6]

So we have an approximately 10% poverty rate in the U.S.

Many say these people are a huge drag on the system, that taxes shouldn't go to help them, that they are no good and never will be and no amount of money will help.

I think we'll always have a 2% to 5% poverty rate even with a silver bullet solution. Fact is we can change the shape of the bell curve and shift its inclination, but there will always be some living life at the intersection of X and Y axes.

Why are people poor?

What are some of the root causes?

What is your long term sustainable solution for taking a 10% poverty rate down to 5%?

As someone who grew up in rural poor/blue collar to suburban middle class to going to college where nearly all kids had nicer cars than my parents to making well into 6 figures in adult life to losing it all and not having enough $ for food for one week, a week I'll never forget, I've pretty much seen it all. And therefore have my own thoughts and have posted some as such here. will again, but would love to see some of the intelligence and creativity this board is known for.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

So we have an approximately 10% poverty rate in the U.S.

Based on who or what data. I am not being argumentative, but the difference between America's poor and the ROW is a chasm. Are you talking homeless?

The data that seems to be accepted is that there is a hardcore 3 to 4% unemployable sector in our society.

[Tobra]

First off, cancel that NAFTA stuff and secure the borders, now, today, I don't want to hear that it is hard, I want to hear that it is done.

Next, take all the convicts in the prisons and put them to work doing the menial jobs that Americans just will not do (my word that is total horseshat) working in the fields etc, bring back the chain gangs, so to speak.

Pay them in room and board, which you are providing anyway.

Take the money you save and educate the poor who are inclined to improve their lot so they can get better paying jobs. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, who is getting financial assistance will do something. Pick up trash at the side of the road, work in a day care center for people in the program that already have outside jobs, answer the phone, whatever, no free rides.

There are many reasons people are poor, some are unlucky, some make poor choices, some are not too bright, some have physical or mental disabilities, some are addicted to drugs or were abused as children and a fair number are just flat ****ing lazy

Oh BTW, some one living in poverty in the US has it a lot better than someone living in poverty in a lot, if not most other places on this rock, spinnin' around the sun

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Good question. I did the math a little two hastily in my head.

The exact figure for 2006 is 12.3% per the U.S. Census Bureau.

[on-ramp]

#1 : Outlaw Credit Cards.

Here's the problem. Corporate america is in bed with our government, their influence is too great and their # 1 obligation is to the criminals on Wall St. No matter the cost. All done for the God almighty dollar. ethics and morals take a back seat.

have you noticed that 100 dollars these days doesn't buy much? remember when 100 dollars used to be a lot of money? not anymore. With inflation, everyone gouging, and salaries stagnant, no wonder many middle class families are going to the poor house.

...and whatever Tobra said. Repubs and Dems are all the same $hit.. time to clean house.

[Seahawk]

The problem is not financial...we spend huge amounts of money on trying to fix this problem. There are few signs of success.

Look within. The key to raising good children applies across the poverty spectrum and with this issue: Set standards, measure progress and reward or re-engage as appropriate. My children don't want to be given anything, they prefer to earn it because that is all they know. It is simple and we all know it but are afraid to say it: Be accountable, hold folks accountable and make it stick. Like the jitterbug...

Look outward: No one federal program will work. Encourage local and state participation, both governmental and private. My thoughts:

- Pay teachers on the GS scale and eliminate the NEA. I would be happy to teach at the GS 15 level. Make the investment early, it will pay huge dividends later. Fix the schools by hiring folks just like me...I guarantee it will work.

- Return control of welfare/all other program to the states.

- Tie corporate tax incentives to management of state programs: Let's see if Microsoft can manage Seattle's poor better than the government. Measure them and lessen their tax incentives should they not perform.

There is more.

[Racerbvd]

1st, disband the Democrat plantation, the maintain power by keep poor people Dependant on government hand outs!!

[livi]

The world needs ditch diggers too.

Sorry, silly me, couldn´t resist.

It is all to do with definition and relativity. What is poor in the US is not in Portugal which in turn is regarded as well off in Uganda.

I wonder if that was the point with Lenin and Stalin´s idea of communism. Everyone should have exactly the same amount of resources (except the head of the regime, of course). Be it that everyone was poor is another matter. If everyone has as little as the neighbor - nobody is poor/rich.

Point is, in a free society of economics like the US there will always be a scale of richness - where some people out of necessity will end up at the bottom.

In a way, the Swedish system will likely produce a more flat curve with less really poor and less really rich.

Ultimately it is in a way a philosophical question how a society should be managed in order to achieve certain goals for the individual or the masses.

As you see, this post was a total waste of band width as I have no answer at all that make sense. Working late too I am, at the moment handling twins born ten weeks too early and not really happy with that. So a little distracted..

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

1st, disband the Democrat plantation, the maintain power by keep poor people Dependant on government hand outs!!

Byron gets the gold star. Do away with welfare & teach people that the way you get money is by working not by breeding.

[on-ramp]

Originally Posted by Mule

Byron gets the gold star. Do away with welfare & teach people that the way you get money is by working not by breeding.

Right. take away welfare. then the homeless population will skyrocket.

Welfare should be used as temporary help for people who need it, while working to get back on their feet.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by on-ramp

Right. take away welfare. then the homeless population will skyrocket.

Welfare should be used as temporary help for people who need it, while working to get back on their feet.

Get rid of the illegals, and have the poor do the field work the illegals are doing. We need to have strict anti-panhandling laws with heavy fines, then those who just like to beg will have no choice but to work.

Many people choose to be poor by the choices they make

[cool_chick]

Any consideration in these solutions for the mental health issues many of these folks have?

[wrecktech]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Take the money you save and educate the poor who are inclined to improve their lot so they can get better paying jobs. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, who is getting financial assistance will do something. Pick up trash at the side of the road, work in a day care center for people in the program that already have outside jobs, answer the phone, whatever, no free rides.

Very important idea there Tobra. Make sure there is a job for everyone so everyone has a job. There are very very few people in America who cannot do anything.

[Rick Lee]

The trillions we have spent on wiping out poverty since the Great Society has done almost nothing to fix the problem. Money is not the answer. There will always be some poor. Take all the money in the world, divide it evenly among everyone, and in a few years, it would all be right back where it started. Some people succeed, some fail. That's one of the few rights we have left here.

[74-911]

I've been broke.
I've never been poor.

Broke is a financial condition.
Poor is a state of mind.

Therein lies the answer.

[HardDrive]

I find myself agreeing, at least partially, with racerbvd and rick lee.

I think welfare is a key element in the issue of poverty. Welfare is not terribly different than handing out heroin. The cycle of addiction is there. 3 years living downtown Detroit, I've seen it up close.

Grandmother (age 34), with mother (age 17) with 4 babys in tow, online at the welfare office. And there are hundreds of thousands of 'familys' just like that. If your a white person from the suburbs, you simply can't imagine the ***** that does on, and the scale of it.

[Rearden]

Originally Posted by on-ramp

#1 : Outlaw Credit Cards.

Wrong.
Credit cards don't put people into debt. People buying things they can't afford with credit cards puts them into debt. It's all about personal responsibility.

How do you decrease poverty? Undo the part of the 1960s social revolution that removed the shame of irresponsible behavior. It used to be shameful to not properly raise your kids. It used to be shameful to get a handout and not make any effort to improve your life.


edit: Of course, this is nearly impossible. The end of shame is considered a good thing ("tolerance") by far too many people and interest groups. That genie is out of the bottle.

[cool_chick]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

I find myself agreeing, at least partially, with racerbvd and rick lee.

I think welfare is a key element in the issue of poverty. Welfare is not terribly different than handing out heroin. The cycle of addiction is there. 3 years living downtown Detroit, I've seen it up close.

Grandmother (age 34), with mother (age 17) with 4 babys in tow, online at the welfare office. And there are hundreds of thousands of 'familys' just like that. If your a white person from the suburbs, you simply can't imagine the ***** that does on, and the scale of it.

They better figure something else out before long, because welfare has a lifetime entitlement limit of 5 years.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Seahawk, Tobra and others, thank you for putting some good ideas down. 74-911, short and sweet, but you've definitely hit upon something.

I hope it's not too much to ask, but if you do suggest a solution, please include some details. Rearden, you have a point, but I want to know what your plan is to undo the 60's social revolution.

there are plenty of "bash the other guy/party" threads. Here I'm simply looking for half-baked to fully-implementable solutions with some details thrown in for discussion.


I'm researching welfare now as a start in putting together a cohesive plan. Just found out that the 1997 Welfare to Work program ended in 2004 and doesn't look like it was continued.

Anyone know if an updated program superseded it? Any data on whether it worked or not? Why/why not?

Thank you for your thoughts.

[idontknow]

Originally Posted by cool_chick

They better figure something else out before long, because welfare has a lifetime entitlement limit of 5 years.

Oh they already have. It's called disability. Grandma only had to work long enough to get the needed credits. Once she's denied twice for disability, you pick your "free" lawyer out of the phone book and get it the third time. Then it's off to get your retroactive SSI to pay off the lawyer. Disability is nothing, SSI is the key to living lazy. The daughter stays in school failing all the way till she's 26 to maximize her SSI income.

Now what grandma did was teach her daughter how to use the system so she can be lazy as well.

Edit: Lest we forget the private & religous sectors. Salvation army and Commissary will gladly help the needy with free food. Salvation army can pay her electric bill once every 3 months, she can apply for free telephone connection, Goodwill for free clothing and food, Faith Farm for free furniture, clothing, and food. Local churches would help with water bills, food, clothing and you can scam the congregation for more free furniture. The list can go on and on.