Poverty: What's Your Solution

[Hugh R]

A few years ago, the Los Angeles Times did a survey of SoCal and measured income, net assets, family size, education, etc. The No. 1 factor that correlated with "wealth" or income or net worth, was EDUCATION. The correlation was something like 95% between poverty and something like $100,000/year in income. Above that, it tended to breakdown somewhat. Lots of people with PhDs don't necessarily make more than someone with a Bachelors degree.

[p911dad]

A local family court judge was addressing our Rotary Club a few years ago, and he made one of those statements that really put it all together for me: "If a certain 50 families in this county, with all its members could somehow leave here for other parts, well, you could do away with my job. You flat out wouldn't need my services and I would gladly return to my practice." He went on to say that he feels these nuclear relationships in large part determine the success or failure of individuals, hanging around with losers will surely make you one too! And of course, these families are at the very bottom of the social scale, living in poverty.
I guess my answer on solving poverty would include somehow reaching these families and thereby work on breaking the cycle of poverty, as it is a cycle and seems to involve the same families over and over. This is the hard core of poverty in the US, not a guy that has lost his job and is looking for another. These folks only work when they have to.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by gmeteer

A local family court judge was addressing our Rotary Club a few years ago, and he made one of those statements that really put it all together for me: "If a certain 50 families in this county, with all its members could somehow leave here for other parts, well, you could do away with my job. You flat out wouldn't need my services and I would gladly return to my practice." He went on to say that he feels these nuclear relationships in large part determine the success or failure of individuals, hanging around with losers will surely make you one too! And of course, these families are at the very bottom of the social scale, living in poverty.
I guess my answer on solving poverty would include somehow reaching these families and thereby work on breaking the cycle of poverty, as it is a cycle and seems to involve the same families over and over. This is the hard core of poverty in the US, not a guy that has lost his job and is looking for another. These folks only work when they have to.

I agree completely. I've been in courtrooms, and I know this is largely true. I'd guess we've got one of those situations where 80% of people are taking care of themselves and their families and paying the cost of the other 20%, who are committing 80% of the crimes and costing us all in court, tax and insurance payments. Resolve that, and you're most of the way to the finish line.

But the cost of resolving that is high. Not higher than we are paying in terms of court, and tax and insurance and police and other costs, but high compared to TAX costs only. In other words, we'd need to take the money we're already spending in hidden costs, and focus that money on resolving the problem.

I'm not that different from you. I don't support this crap. But you call me a "liberal" because I think we're not going to solve the problem by ignoring it. Or by withdrawing welfare (which is probably impossible and even if we could do it, you would NOT like the result). If we want to solve the problem, then we need to solve the problem. And it will cost money.

[Rearden]

How do you propose taxpayer dollars be spent to keep families together?

[the]

How about a Federal Department of Adult Education?

Attendance would be mandatory, would have federal government classes and seminars on how to make your marriage work, how to raise your kids properly, how to be a good husband/wife, how to keep your house clean, how to balance your checkbook, and other vitally important topics that our government has ignored for far too long.

As far as poverty, the problem is too many low paying jobs. Who can raise a family of 8 working at McD's for $7.00 hour?!? But that's an easy fix, just raise the minimum wage to $80/hour.

[Christien]

Originally Posted by Rearden

How do you propose taxpayer dollars be spent to keep families together?

I honestly believe that if a society could answer that question and find an effective solution that you'd do away not only with a lot of the poverty that currently exists, but also a lot of other social problems. Problem is, that's a ridiculously difficult question to answer, and I sure as hell don't have the answer.

The cycle of poverty is unbelievably powerful, and the family is the best place to break it. But that's the million-dollar answer...

[74-911]

Originally Posted by Christien

I honestly believe that if a society could answer that question and find an effective solution that you'd do away not only with a lot of the poverty that currently exists, but also a lot of other social problems. Problem is, that's a ridiculously difficult question to answer, and I sure as hell don't have the answer.

The cycle of poverty is unbelievably powerful, and the family is the best place to break it. But that's the million-dollar answer...

Well stated. Unfortunately the only way our government knows how to "solve" a problem is to create a huge bureaucracy and throw money at it... Re: the previous war on poverty, the war on drugs, the war on terror, etc. The only difference is now we would probably outsource the new war on poverty on a no bid cost plus contract.

[Normy]

I just eat pasta twice per day. Lunch and dinner. If you do this, you can live on $1.20 per day. I don't eat breakfast. I spend about 25 cents for each of my two cups of coffee each morning however. 8'Oclock Coffee-brand is getting expensive- It might cost me 28 cents per cup if the dollar keeps shrinking~

By the way...If you buy a 928, you can drive your car at 170 mph, and the total cost of the car will be around $10,000. I graduated from high school at 150 pounds, and I weigh the same at the age of 41. Most people are heavier, but it isn't much of a difference. The later 928S4's were capable of 175 mph, and can do it with three people aboard while the AC is cranking and the stereo is playing like hell. Hello? You can pay $90,000 for a late 997, or you can pay 11% of that and enjoy the same performance from a 928.

"How to be cheap, lesson 928"

N!

[azasadny]

Originally Posted by 74-911

I've been broke.
I've never been poor.

Broke is a financial condition.
Poor is a state of mind.

Therein lies the answer.

Amen to that!

[speedracing944]

We are currently living under the poverty level. I am unemployeed and get a $355 a week unemployment check. My wife who is college educated works for the UW Madison doing research. The pay for her job is low (mid $20's) a year but the insurance is good. Our weekly child care costs are $315 and our gas bill to get to work is $100 a week.

As a child I grew up as a welfare kid living in the projects "the hood". My mother made $75 a week working part time. She had some major health issues and was on disability by age 30. I remember as a child only having 1 loaf of white bread to eat for a whole week. This wasn't just for 1 week but many many weeks and months.

High school sucked for me as my 0.7 GPA would attest. Heck I didn't even finish. As soon as I turned 18 I moved to Madison to live with the love of my life my current wife. We have dated since we were 17. I started working and earning money. At age 20 we had our first baby girl. Now I really had to bust my butt. I worked 65+ hours a week and in doing so progressed quickly up the ladder in pay and positions. At age 25 we had our son and 6 months later my wife and I purchased our dream 4 acre horse farm. during this time I got my HSED and had 3 years into a 4 year Plastics Apprenticeship. One of the Engineers at work pulled me asside one day and asked if I ever considered going to school for engineering because of some of the projects I completed. I was blown away by the thought since I never even passed 9th grade math.

Fast forward 5 more years and at age 30 our plant is going into shut down due to being outsourced to China and Tennessee. I was glad that by this time I finished my Accociates Degree and had already started taking classes to gain admission to UW Madison for Engineering. It took 3 years of taking classes part time while working to prep myself.

So the news of the shut down was quite a shock but I already had a plan. What a perfect time to transfer into UW and do Engineering school full time. I am now 1.5 years into my schooling and have about 2 more years to go. At age 32 and now with a young 2 year old daughter school is pretty challenging.

A positive I have going for me is the State of Wisconsin is picking up the tab on tuition and books as well as extending my unemployment check until I am done with school. This is possible due to the TRA act which helps those who are displaced due to outsourcing.

I feel fortunate to have been in the right place at the right time and having the vision to look ahead given my past circimstances.

How to prevent poverty??????
For myself it is busting my butt and education, oh and being smart with money. Don't over extend yourself.

I have 2 other friends who have broken out of the ghetto and educated themselfs much in the same way I have. My plan after I get out of school is to set up a scholorship fund for kids who are growing up in the same "hood" as my friends and I. I am hoping kids young and old see it as an opertunity to break the cycle of poverty. I hope I can be a mentor to the kid who has a hope of getting to school but due to the restrictions at home doesn't see a way or looks at it as impossible.

I know not everybody is cut out for school heck even I wasn't at one point in my life (my whole childhood) but for those who want to go I want to help.

Imagine what could happen if each of us reached out our hand or even offered a earth shattering praise such as "Have you ever thought about going to school?".

Speedy

[74-911]

Originally Posted by speedracing944

I know not everybody is cut out for school heck even I wasn't at one point in my life (my whole childhood) but for those who want to go I want to help.

Imagine what could happen if each of us reached out our hand or even offered a earth shattering praise such as "Have you ever thought about going to school?".

Speedy

Perhaps part of the problem is the type school (college) our society has deemed necessary in order to be "successful". I don't know about other states but here in the great state of TX, it seems it's all about passing standardized tests and SAT/ACT scores and getting a college education (and it's not particularly successful at doing that).
The area I live in is generally blue collar lower income yet from everything I read there is a big shortage of certified welders and machinists. The big problem is so many of those residing at the poverty income level who would be perfect to train for these fairly well-paying jobs with benefits basically come out of school and can't read well if at all or even do basic math. We are not talking calculus here. And the dropout rate is out of sight.
Maybe we need to adopt a system more in line with what I understand most Eurpoean countries do. That is to provide a very distinct path to trade schools for specialized training and job placement for jobs that actually exist. Of course part of the problem is the perception with many people in our society that trade school is for losers.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by speedracing944

We are currently living under the poverty level. I am unemployeed and get a $355 a week unemployment check. My wife who is college educated works for the UW Madison doing research. The pay for her job is low (mid $20's) a year but the insurance is good. Our weekly child care costs are $315 and our gas bill to get to work is $100 a week.

As a child I grew up as a welfare kid living in the projects "the hood". My mother made $75 a week working part time. She had some major health issues and was on disability by age 30. I remember as a child only having 1 loaf of white bread to eat for a whole week. This wasn't just for 1 week but many many weeks and months.

High school sucked for me as my 0.7 GPA would attest. Heck I didn't even finish. As soon as I turned 18 I moved to Madison to live with the love of my life my current wife. We have dated since we were 17. I started working and earning money. At age 20 we had our first baby girl. Now I really had to bust my butt. I worked 65+ hours a week and in doing so progressed quickly up the ladder in pay and positions. At age 25 we had our son and 6 months later my wife and I purchased our dream 4 acre horse farm. during this time I got my HSED and had 3 years into a 4 year Plastics Apprenticeship. One of the Engineers at work pulled me asside one day and asked if I ever considered going to school for engineering because of some of the projects I completed. I was blown away by the thought since I never even passed 9th grade math.

Fast forward 5 more years and at age 30 our plant is going into shut down due to being outsourced to China and Tennessee. I was glad that by this time I finished my Accociates Degree and had already started taking classes to gain admission to UW Madison for Engineering. It took 3 years of taking classes part time while working to prep myself.

So the news of the shut down was quite a shock but I already had a plan. What a perfect time to transfer into UW and do Engineering school full time. I am now 1.5 years into my schooling and have about 2 more years to go. At age 32 and now with a young 2 year old daughter school is pretty challenging.

A positive I have going for me is the State of Wisconsin is picking up the tab on tuition and books as well as extending my unemployment check until I am done with school. This is possible due to the TRA act which helps those who are displaced due to outsourcing.

I feel fortunate to have been in the right place at the right time and having the vision to look ahead given my past circimstances.

How to prevent poverty??????
For myself it is busting my butt and education, oh and being smart with money. Don't over extend yourself.

I have 2 other friends who have broken out of the ghetto and educated themselfs much in the same way I have. My plan after I get out of school is to set up a scholorship fund for kids who are growing up in the same "hood" as my friends and I. I am hoping kids young and old see it as an opertunity to break the cycle of poverty. I hope I can be a mentor to the kid who has a hope of getting to school but due to the restrictions at home doesn't see a way or looks at it as impossible.

I know not everybody is cut out for school heck even I wasn't at one point in my life (my whole childhood) but for those who want to go I want to help.

Imagine what could happen if each of us reached out our hand or even offered a earth shattering praise such as "Have you ever thought about going to school?".

Speedy

You sir are a Role Model

[DanL911sc]

* Make sure that higher education is available to those who can't afford it.
* Find ways to reduce the cost of health care/insurance

[onewhippedpuppy]

You want the answer Shaun? Look at Speedy. You have to want out of your situation, want out so damn bad that you will work your ass off to do so. There is no govt magic bullet, no amount of money we can throw at this. All that will accomplish is to expand the welfare state. People have to WANT to improve their situation, and be willing to work for it.

How to do so? Make the opportunities available to them. Financial aid, adult education, trade programs, empower those that desire to better themselves. For those that have no desire to better themselves? What can you do to make someone WANT to work? Because if they don't want it, they won't kill themselves (like Speedy) to improve their lives. They'll just fall back to their welfare/SSI/disability.

When my wife took a job as an accountant at a church several years ago, I lost all pity for these "disadvantaged" folks. The church was in our downtown area, pretty much ground zero for the homeless. At times she had to fill in for the church receptionist, and deal with the homeless that came in to beg. Those that came in didn't ask for food or shelter, they asked for money. When told no, they often became angry, often yelling at the church employees. Others simply dashed off into the building, where they were eventually found with their pockets full of items they had stolen. They harassed old ladies in the parking lot after church. They broke into cars in the lot. They mugged a retired priest. The list goes on and on. These were not people that want help, or to improve their life. They want a handout, a free ride. Our society will always have these lazy, worthless people, and there's no amount of govt programs that will cure that.

You want more? I spend several years doing maintenance work for my grandfather's mobile home parks. Probably 1/2 of the residents were on welfare, disability, or SSI. Amazing how many disability recipients made money painting houses, paid in cash of course. A pure miracle how the disabled man with the "bad back" was able to go to the lake on the weekends with his boat and jet-skis. I did not meet a single one that desired to improve their situation, they were content to be a parasite on the back of society.

Speedy, I know your story well. I'm 27, married with two kids, full time engineering student, and working two jobs. Grew up lower middle class, neither parent went to college. I had no issues with high school, but went to college and was quickly kicked out for lack of effort. Worked full time for a year, went back for 3 semesters, dropped out. Worked a multitude of construction jobs until I decided that I wanted to make a better life for my family, and returned to school. Now I'm a senior, making better money than I ever have, and will be done in May (thank God). The opportunities are there for those that want to improve their lives, they just have to be willing to work for it. And isn't that how it should be?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by speedracing944

...How to prevent poverty??????
For myself it is busting my butt and education, oh and being smart with money. Don't over extend yourself....

Speedy, your post is inspirational...thanks for sharing! IMO, the above applies not only to you, but to everyone.

[sjf911]

As long as there are people living in "civilization" there will be rich and poor.

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

Poverty is mostly about poor choices. The problem is that those choices may have been made by your parents or grandparents.

[Christien]

Speedy, your story is awesome. While I'll never advocate handouts creating a welfare state, for those that argue for the complete abolishment of welfare/unemployment, let's take a second to think of where Speedy might be were it not for unemployment and gov't help getting him through college. This is how social assistance is supposed to work, and when it does work, it creates a better society for everyone.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by DanL911sc

* Make sure that higher education is available to those who can't afford it.
* Find ways to reduce the cost of health care/insurance

Yeah, and do away with earthquakes and hurricanes too. Cure cancer, end all wars. Just wave a wand.

College is not for everyone. Those who are truly motivated will find a way to afford it. Very few of the current poor got that way because of healthcare costs.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

This is turning out better than expected, thank you all. I'm going to take a different tack and later today/tonight put together (from my subjective viewpoint) the best ideas expressed here, for further discussion, dissection, and review to create the building blocks for a real plan.

Please carry on.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by DanL911sc

* Make sure that higher education is available to those who can't afford it.

It is. I go to school on loans and grants, it was not difficult. If I was a minority, I would have been eligable for hundreds (literally) of scholarships.

* Find ways to reduce the cost of health care/insurance

Agreed, but I don't think it is the primary factor in poverty.

I'll reiterate, the opportunity is there, you just have to reach for it.