Us vs. Them, a perspective

[Seric]

Originally Posted by Mule

But Arab terrorist does = muslim. Do you have a point?

My point was that Muslim Terroirsts are a very small percentage of the people who practice the religion. It's just sad that such a small percentage of bad apples ruins the whole tree. I guess that happens in all walks of life.

[livi]

All which bring us to the inevitable and obvious question:

Wherein lies the common denominator for non acceptable behavior worth getting off of our behinds to protect our children from ? (or something like that)

If a Taliban shoots a young kid for teaching English - should all Talibans be judged as enemies ?

If a Christian .....?

If a etc etc

Now if a non descript, bald headed youngster in a fag costume hits a liqour store and tops off the clerk - should all.....?

The answer is of course no. But why ?

The simplest, most naive questions often carry the most simple answer. The most simple answer is more often correct than not.

[Rikao4]

Christians complain in a Muslim country = most likely dead Christians or at minimum told to leave.


Rika

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Seric

My point was that Muslim Terroirsts are a very small percentage of the people who practice the religion. It's just sad that such a small percentage of bad apples ruins the whole tree. I guess that happens in all walks of life.

The greater question in the USA, Western Europe and other countries where commmunities live side by side with Muslims - is not the percentage of actual terrorists - it is how much support for those who would advance that particular religion (and attendant lifestyle) by violence are to be found in these communities? After 9/11 people started to do a whole lot of reading of history and what has and is going on in the world and don't like everything they see.

The good news for us in the USA - is that we are in fact "the great satan" for good reason. It is not as most suppose that we offer the most decedent lifestyle. It is that we are the greatest corruptors of traditional ways.

We offer much more opportunity to assimilate, to get ahead economically and not be broken (and kept down) by the nanny state. The old ways and the old mores are swept away as much as any other immigrant group.. And those with jobs and a future are not drawn to all that nonsense.

[Seric]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

The greater question in the USA, Western Europe and other countries where commmunities live side by side with Muslims - is not the percentage of actual terrorists - it is how much support for those who would advance that particular religion (and attendant lifestyle) by violence are to be found in these communities? After 9/11 people started to do a whole lot of reading of history and what has and is going on in the world and don't like everything they see.

Good point.

Like when the U.S. rounded up Japanese Americans and put them in interment camps during WWII. Who knows how many of them were spies or sympathetic to the Imperials and what kind of chaos they could start.

[Rikao4]

So who is the 'Borg'
Must we assimilate into the Muslim world ,
Rika

[The Gaijin]

Not exactly. Nobody is rounding up anybody.

I know many families (both Canadian and American) who were rounded up and shipped out. My mother's family was kicked out of East London too - but that was because of the bombing. But those are whole other OT threads...

I also think the LAPD plan is stupid and should go away.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Seric

Good point.

Like when the U.S. rounded up Japanese Americans and put them in interment camps during WWII. Who knows how many of them were spies or sympathetic to the Imperials and what kind of chaos they could start.

I've often wondered how many Japanese-American lives were spared by being rounded up. I mean, the general hatred of the Japanese at that time was pretty strong. Surely some would have been murdered/lynched etc. during the war...

[Superman]

Brilliant spin, Chris.

[legion]

I'm not one to defend or admire FDR. He's the one that invented modern social programs and deficit spending. LBJ perfected them.

It's amazing how the "shades of gray" and "look at all sides of an issue" people are incredibily closed-minded when it comes an issue they have long staked out a position on.

[The Gaijin]

I think their neighbors knew them and repsected them as hardworking immigrants and their American children. There were no problems in Hawaii, where Japanese-Americans were not interned. The decision making process and how quickly and easily it all happened is frightful.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Seric

My point was that Muslim Terroirsts are a very small percentage of the people who practice the religion. It's just sad that such a small percentage of bad apples ruins the whole tree. I guess that happens in all walks of life.

You mean like the guys that operated the gas chambers were a small percentage on nazis? It appears you are making decisions with very limited knowledge. Over 50% of American muslims have opinions similar to the killers. Those statements are easily supported with real data.

[Seric]

Originally Posted by Mule

You mean like the guys that operated the gas chambers were a small percentage on nazis? It appears you are making decisions with very limited knowledge. Over 50% of American muslims have opinions similar to the killers. Those statements are easily supported with real data.

I was not totally aware of this, pardon my ignorance.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Mule

You mean like the guys that operated the gas chambers were a small percentage on nazis? It appears you are making decisions with very limited knowledge. Over 50% of American muslims have opinions similar to the killers. Those statements are easily supported with real data.

Educate Seric and myself. Who published this report that concludes the majority of American Muslims are terrorists? Thank you, in advance.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Mule

You mean like the guys that operated the gas chambers were a small percentage on nazis? It appears you are making decisions with very limited knowledge. Over 50% of American muslims have opinions similar to the killers. Those statements are easily supported with real data.

Those Nazis were a small percentage of Germans.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

The greater question in the USA, Western Europe and other countries where commmunities live side by side with Muslims - is not the percentage of actual terrorists - it is how much support for those who would advance that particular religion (and attendant lifestyle) by violence are to be found in these communities? After 9/11 people started to do a whole lot of reading of history and what has and is going on in the world and don't like everything they see.

The good news for us in the USA - is that we are in fact "the great satan" for good reason. It is not as most suppose that we offer the most decedent lifestyle. It is that we are the greatest corruptors of traditional ways.

We offer much more opportunity to assimilate, to get ahead economically and not be broken (and kept down) by the nanny state. The old ways and the old mores are swept away as much as any other immigrant group.. And those with jobs and a future are not drawn to all that nonsense.

To an extent, but the true fundamentalists still keep their beliefs while blending into their society of choice. The recent UK airport bombing was composed of mostly respected professionals. If my memory serves me correctly, there were several doctors and an aerospace engineer. Amazing that such intelligent individuals fall victim to being brainwashed.

[sammyg2]

There was a recnt poll taken inside the United states, and all persons polled were Muslim. One of the questions was, under certain circumstances do you feel that suicide bombings are justified?

Over 25% of all muslims polled answered yes.
Over 40% of all muslim males under the age of 25 years said yes, under certain circumstances suicide bombings are justified.

I can't remember the organization that conducted the poll, money magazine or something like that. It should be easily researched. I didn't take the poll, I didn't make it up, I just read it.

[sammyg2]

The survey found 26 percent of younger Muslims believed suicide bombings are often, sometimes or rarely justified, compared with 69 percent who believed such attacks can never be accepted.


Support in some degree for suicide bombings among younger European Muslims ranged from 22 percent in Germany to 29 percent in Spain, 35 percent in Britain and 42 percent in France, according to a May 2006 Pew poll.

Maybe this is where I got the 25% and 40%.

[stomachmonkey]

I believe this is the data that is being referred to although he numbers do not match what has been presented here.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2244293620070522

[sammyg2]

Here's another interesting one, but from the UK:

British Muslim Poll
Very interesting poll of Muslim's in Britain.
Via Sky News

Radical clerics who preach violence are not out of touch with mainstream Muslim views, according to nearly half of British Muslims questioned in a poll.

The opinion poll for Sky News revealed that roughly the same number thought of themselves as Muslims first and British second.


Almost all - 91% - were against the bombings of July 7, but 2% agreed with what the suicide bombers did. (2% of some 3 million Moslims in Britain, that's a pretty large number)


Around 88% thought there was no justification in the Koran for the bombings, but 5% thought there was.

The interviewees were asked to respond to the statement: "Muslim clerics who preach violence against the West are out of touch with mainstream Muslim opinon."

Nearly half - 46% - disagreed or strongly disagreed, while 54% thought they were out of touch.

And 46% said they thought of themselves as Muslim first and British second, with another 42% not differentiating.

Only 12% saw themselves as British first and Muslim second