Poor parenting methods; do you say anything?

[Moneyguy1]

What you are witnessing is the first generation of individuals raised in a permissive environment trying to raise the second generation (their own kids) without a clue. Even if asked by the parents, there is no way they will understand. Pity the kid. He is in for a lot of grief in the "real" world.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I think you did the right thing by not telling the other couple how you feel.
My wife and I have done the same thing.

+1 But...the $200 per moon will help the brat when he's in jail.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

What you are witnessing is the first generation of individuals raised in a permissive environment trying to raise the second generation (their own kids) without a clue. Even if asked by the parents, there is no way they will understand. Pity the kid. He is in for a lot of grief in the "real" world.

Although I agree with the final observation, I would say that we are seeing the 2nd generation trying to raise the 3rd. The baby boomers were the first ones introduced to permissive parenting ala baby doc Dr. Spock. At this point, the boomers are having grandbrats.

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by Moneyguy1

What you are witnessing is the first generation of individuals raised in a permissive environment trying to raise the second generation (their own kids) without a clue. Even if asked by the parents, there is no way they will understand. Pity the kid. He is in for a lot of grief in the "real" world.

"You can't instill a value system in a child of 13 - 15, it comes from years and years of efforts." - 911Rob


The above quotes say it all. My niece & nephew were raised by parents who overindulged them and tried being their friends instead of their parents. Now 18, the girl is a jobless, beauty school drop-out living on a friend's couch and saving money for her first tattoo. At 21, the boy dropped out of junior college 'cause he couldn't handle his grueling schedule of two music classes, still lives rent-free at home, was recently released from hard drug de-tox and is as clueless as they come.

Yes...maintain your silence about how other's are raising their kids. You're taking the right course. One of the biggest challenges in raising kids is trying to control and balance the input they receive from the world at large. There is so much more competition for kids attention now. Even though you do your best to keep them on the right track at home, their world is full of distractions that seem so much more glamorous than what mom & dad have to offer.

[alf]

I will take a contary view on this...
If they are good friends and you care about their child's welfare, you should do something to help. If any of my friends make mistakes, I will help them out.

I come from a culture where we are taught to thank a stranger for diciplining our children while we are not paying attention, this is somewhat an extension of that. I appreciate it when people help me with parenting; particularly from individuals that have had success in raising good kids.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by alf

I will take a contary view on this...
If they are good friends and you care about their child's welfare, you should do something to help. If any of my friends make mistakes, I will help them out.

I come from a culture where we are taught to thank a stranger for diciplining our children while we are not paying attention, this is somewhat an extension of that. I appreciate it when people help me with parenting; particularly from individuals that have had success in raising good kids.

I agree with you in theory, but we're way beyond that now. Somehow I doubt the brat's parents would be at all thankful for someone else setting their kid straight. They're probably the kind of parents who threaten to sue the school when their kid gets in trouble for a good reason.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by alf

I will take a contary view on this...
If they are good friends and you care about their child's welfare, you should do something to help. If any of my friends make mistakes, I will help them out.

I come from a culture where we are taught to thank a stranger for diciplining our children while we are not paying attention, this is somewhat an extension of that. I appreciate it when people help me with parenting; particularly from individuals that have had success in raising good kids.

i kinda like that too. not to be confused with some random a-hole commenting on how your child is behaving in line at the grocery store.

i'll say this much though, the older my son gets the more humble i become in regards to my parenting ability.

[Overpaid Slacker]

In your circumstance, I would not say anything. The likelihood of their accepting your observations gracefully, multiplied the likelihood of their actually fixing the situation at this point is microscopic compared to the likelihood that they will react adversely... at which point you won't see them again anyway... which is the situation you want.

On a slightly related tangent ... I'm a volunteer firefighter/EMT in my home town. Every year we have our largest fund-raising event -- make your own scarecrow. It's a hoot, and the community really enjoys it.

My job is to conduct the tours of the truck and/or engine, so I'm talking to/dealing with kids (from 3 to 53, though mostly at the lower end of that range) all day. Which is enough dealing with kids for me for the subsequent 364 days.

In many groups of kids, there is that "one", or gawd help me, "two" that should be given to gypsies. I correct them; gently but sternly at first, with only one strike. If I'm holding a Halligan or an axe (or my fave: the TNT) and offering it out "who would like to hold this? come on up and take turns" and the brat/bytch pushes forward, I send them to the back. "This is sharp and heavy and you need to behave yourself so nobody gets hurt." I have a voice that conveys the point; and I can immediately pick out the "parent" of the wretched little abomination.

If they're talking up, "it's not your turn to talk. when I'm finished, you can ask questions. I will tell you when that is." And when question time comes, I'll endure all the rambling, goofy, "wtf is this?" questions they can ask ... but not the same ones over and over again. "There are other people here with questions; I have answered yours."

Hey -- it's my truck, and everything is heavy and there are no soft corners or blunt blades ... and if your kid gets hurt, because s/he is a moron, or because the moron in the group hurt them, who you gonna blame?

By the same token, the child who is attentive, doesn't interrupt, and is just generally a good kid... I'll take care of them. That will be the kid who can sit in the driver's seat, or to whom I'll give my bunker coat and helmet to try on.

I had a group in the cabin and I asked if there were questions... a 13 y/o boy asked a great question about when/how we decide what we can/will do. I told him that we'll risk everything for somebody's life, and we'll risk a lot to help save their property, but if everybody is safe, and the place is too dangerous to enter ... well that's what insurance is for. It'd be pretty stupid of me to risk my life to save your record collection; and pretty stupid of you to expect me to.

The little 5 y/o precocious priss puts her hand up, and, before I call on her she blurts out "you're not supposed to say 'stupid!'"

I smile wanly at her (her dad is standing in the door) and I say "no, you're not supposed to say 'stupid', but you just did. I'll let it go this time, but you've been warned. Any other questions?" I hear a couple of parents behind me, with kids waiting to climb into the cabin, chuckle, and one telling her son to mind his manners when he gets in the cab.

On another note -- I've always wanted to learn sign language...not to communicate with the deaf/hearing impaired so much, as to approach the pinhead parent(s) at the restaurant with the children acting out and sign something to them, smiling. When they ask what I'm doing and/or say they're not deaf, I reply "oh, I thought you must be, because your larva are disturbing everybody else who came to get out their house and have a nice meal, and you're doing nothing about it."

JP

[alf]

JP
If more people were like you, our kids will be much better off. As a society we should really be proactive in helping all of our children grow into productive adults. If that means upsetting some parent's ego for a few moments then so be it; it is a small price to pay.

[Rot 911]

Just quit treating kids like royalty.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Kurt V

Just quit treating kids like royalty.

Exactly! And this is where it starts. Parents are afraid of their own children. I have no idea how or when this started. Possibly with Dr. Spock telling parents not to discipline their children in the old and traditional manner, which did work.

It's really too bad that: 1) Parents allow their children to rule their (the parents') lives for whatever reason, and 2) Other parents don't have the guts to tell these poor examples of parenting that they are improperly raising their child.

Suggesting to these parents that their kid is being raised improperly is rather more a responsible way to conduct one's self socially, then to allow the parents to live in whatever their haze of denial is.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

"Oh won't someone please think of the children!!!"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Misinterpreted and used to justify anything. There's your problem.

[notfarnow]

Great thread!

I've had to really bite my tongue when I'm at a certain relative's place. They are just incapable of saying no to their kids... all the kids have to do is whine or get mad, and they give in. The kids know this, so they are forever whining and throwing fits. Not much fun to be around, but I wouldn't dare say anything... not my place.

However, there have been a few instances when they have acted out at our place. If the behavior warrants it, I don't mind addressing the kids directly. Once we were having a brunch, and I made a big feed of scrambled eggs, french toast & fruit cup. Well the daughter says "I don't LIKE scrambled eggs, I want a boiled egg."

I was a bit surprised, but just replied "Well, we have lots of other stuff to eat, so help yourself to that." Not good enough... "But everyone else is getting eggs, and I want a boiled egg." Her father said something about her being a fussy eater, she was starting to pout.

Sometimes I just get too cranky to censor myself

"Well, in this house you eat what's served at the table and you don't complain, because it's rude to the people who cooked your meal. Otherwise, you don't get to be at the table. Do you want to eat at the table with us?"

She stopped complaining, and ate the other stuff that was served. Both parents were a bit shocked, I think. Her mother has never been real warm with me since. Such is life.

When I was a kid, being scolded by people OTHER than your parents meant you were really out of line. I can remember very vividly being scolded by my great aunt for bad manners. The embarrassment and shock really drove the message home.

Also, if an uncle/aunt/family friend had to straighten you out, you were in REAL trouble once you were in the car with your parents.

[svandamme]

i refrain from making kids till they revoke the no smacking laws

it's to risky, even if only 1% of my genes do their work, the kid will need plenty of smacks around the head to keep him in check, res ipsa loquitor

it's not that i don't want kids , it's just that i need the tools to deal with em

[frogger]

Originally Posted by dd74

I have no idea how or when this started. Possibly with Dr. Spock telling parents not to discipline their children in the old and traditional manner, which did work.

I must not have received the memo. Muhahahahaha!

[legion]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

When I was a kid, being scolded by people OTHER than your parents meant you were really out of line. I can remember very vividly being scolded by my great aunt for bad manners. The embarrassment and shock really drove the message home.

Also, if an uncle/aunt/family friend had to straighten you out, you were in REAL trouble once you were in the car with your parents.

I was born in 1978. My parents should have been that first or second "permissive" generation. I assure you, if I acted in a way that warranted negative attention from another adult, sitting down would not be possible for at least a week. I still distinctly remember being "taken to the car" at La Paloma in La Verne as a kid after one bad episode. I also remember not fearing my parents--just thinking the next time that I shouldn't whine.

[legion]

Originally Posted by svandamme

res ipsa loquitor

You were that bad, huh?

(I don't think I've ever heard that phrase from anyone but U.S. lawyers...)

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

When I was a kid, being scolded by people OTHER than your parents meant you were really out of line. I can remember very vividly being scolded by my great aunt for bad manners. The embarrassment and shock really drove the message home.

Also, if an uncle/aunt/family friend had to straighten you out, you were in REAL trouble once you were in the car with your parents.

+1.

[Rikao4]

Spent some time as a youngster with my Aunt/Uncle...beatings never..he could 'look at me' and I would rather have had a hard correction..
but he would just give that ''I'm so disappointed in you' look and I swore to myself..not letting that happen again.
I miss him alot.
Rika

[Seahawk]

I have not, nor will I, ever spank my kids. They are very well sorted 13 and 15 year-olds.
The only thing we would ever do when they were young was to smack their outstretched hand, and even then not very hard. It was more about the ceremony of expressing parental displeasure with their behavior.

The issue as I see it with being a parent is first paying attention and listening, then setting rules, explaining the rules and enforcing the rules.
Next, when warranted, adjusting the rules as they earn it. For instance, my Daughter and I can and will argue in private...I think it is important that teenagers have a voice. She understands, however, that any public display of temper is simply not acceptable.

Pay attention, listen. My family is far from perfect, I am fraught with error, but we know what's expected of each other.