No good deed goes unpunished

[Dan in Pasadena]

Actually, you're the guy that posted a thread complaining (rightfully) about thoughtless people that took advantage of your goodwill and then by some leap (?) morphed your upset into an accusation about their immigration status. If that's not a twist and an example of having a bias against people that "look" a certain way, I don't know what is? I think its perfectly clear YOU "twisted" things around.

As for having a chip on my shoulder? I don't, and you don't know me in the slightest other than to note that yes, I usually respond when someone posts kneejerk accusations about minorities....partly because there are so few here on the board at all. You'll note if you ever do a search I do not resort to name calling or posting juvenile cartoons in those responses. So far, you've done that and especially Byron seems to love the cartoons. I think think your "chip-on-your-shoulder" acccusation is a pretty effective debating tactic though. Divert attention from the issue at hand - my disagreement with yourr comments - to a discussion of my character.

But you know, hey whatever. I'm not going to change your mind in the slightest and you're not likely to get me to believe everyone that looks hispanic and perhaps poor, is illegal. I agree it's too bad thoughtless people broke your shrubbery regardless of their skin color or immigration status.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Dan, you are 100% correct. These people were inconsiderate a-holes and their nationality or ethnic background is irrelevant. If sammy had left that part out, the discussion would be quite different now, wouldn't it?

I will throw this out for thought/consideration though: Do you think that a person's socioeconomic status (irrespective of ethnicity) has any relation to how likely they are to damage/destroy another's property, be inconsiderate in general, etc? In other words, if you took 100 people (of any race, could even be all white for all I care) and put them in the same situation that sammy's "guests" were in, do you think the number of people that would have trashed his bushes and hose would have been disproportionately from the group of lower income & social status?

[notfarnow]

I can relate to the situation.

A few weeks ago I was at the hardware store and some white guy had a dead battery. I gave him a boost, and when he pulled back and drove away he drove through a puddle... splashed my car. It may have been an accident, but still... friggin white people.

Now that I think about it, most of the people who have pi$$ed me off in the past few months have been white.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

I can relate to the situation.

A few weeks ago I was at the hardware store and some white guy had a dead battery. I gave him a boost, and when he pulled back and drove away he drove through a puddle... splashed my car. It may have been an accident, but still... friggin white people.

Now that I think about it, most of the people who have pi$$ed me off in the past few months have been white.

You're in Canada, dude.

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

Now that I think about it, most of the people who have pi$$ed me off in the past few months have been white.

That's because you live in New Brunswick. What else do you have there beside white's?

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by speeder

You're in Canada, dude.

The province is more relevant than the country, but since this thread is all about generalizations I will let it go.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by PBH

That's because you live in New Brunswick. What else do you have there beside white's?

Irish Catholics, lots of them!

[craigster59]

Couldn't you just get another Mexican to fix the shrub? Most of them are gardeners/landscapers, when they're not doing drywall...

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Dan, you are 100% correct. These people were inconsiderate a-holes and their nationality or ethnic background is irrelevant. If sammy had left that part out, the discussion would be quite different now, wouldn't it?

I will throw this out for thought/consideration though: Do you think that a person's socioeconomic status (irrespective of ethnicity) has any relation to how likely they are to damage/destroy another's property, be inconsiderate in general, etc? In other words, if you took 100 people (of any race, could even be all white for all I care) and put them in the same situation that sammy's "guests" were in, do you think the number of people that would have trashed his bushes and hose would have been disproportionately from the group of lower income & social status?

That's a great question and some sharp media group should follow up on it. they could invent/create a scenario where different (in appearance) ethnic/social groups would be put in similar situations and then see how it turns out and how they act. We might be very surprised. Now that I think about it I recall seeing something like that once where they set it up so that a guy coiming out of a restroom or phone booth or something like that had a $10 bill fall out of his pocket in front of different people to getm their reaction.

I personally had a deal with a dead battery very similar to Jake's previous post but a lot worse. One of my kids had given me one of those little emergency battery gadgets that look like an oversized radio to jump-start cars. BTW, they are great and everyone should have one in the car. Anyhow, I had used it a few times and was familiar with it.

So I'm at a stop sign and see two young guys with their hood up. Not a bad looking car, I think it was a Firebird or a Camaro, and they were clean cut kids with no weapons or tatoos in sight so I stopped and asked if they had a dead battery and they said that they sure did. So I got outthe little jumper and it worked perfect and they were a bit amazed as they must never had seen one.

They thanked me profusely and asked what they owed me etc and even asked for my phone number when i told them it was no big deal. Then the one who must have been the driver/owner mentioned that they had just bought the car (and then I did notice that the car didn't have plates) and that they hoped it would not stop again. You can probably guess what happened next.

I told them to take the jumper gadget and just get it back to me. They thanked me again, made sure of my phone number.......and I have never heard from those little pricks since!!

And I can gaurantee you that they were not illegal immigrants, Hispanic, or probably even Catholic (it's a joke for that one guy) and maybe that's why Sammy jumping to conclusions sounded so dumb.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by WI wide body

I told them to take the jumper gadget and just get it back to me. They thanked me again, made sure of my phone number.......and I have never heard from those little pricks since!!

And I can gaurantee you that they were not illegal immigrants, Hispanic, or probably even Catholic (it's a joke for that one guy) and maybe that's why Sammy jumping to conclusions sounded so dumb.

I bet they were Belgian!

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Dan, you are 100% correct. These people were inconsiderate a-holes and their nationality or ethnic background is irrelevant. If sammy had left that part out, the discussion would be quite different now, wouldn't it?

Jeff, These people WERE inconsiderate as hell, I TOTALLY agree. Your statement is a lot more concise than I was - "their ethnic background is irrelevant" - EXACTLY. If Sammy had left that part out, yes the discussion would have been entirely different, at least my input would have been. There was a post a couple years ago where someone complained their car was damaged by something falling off the bed of a pickup truck. The guy was pissed and I could totally relate. But he added that the thing (whatever it was) had fallen off "an illegal fruitpicker's truck" - words to that effect. What? How does he know the person's immigration status or what the guy does for a living? My point is that the poster was ticked off (I would be too) but what's the reason for the ethnic stereotyping? I understand being mad, but....

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I will throw this out for thought/consideration though: Do you think that a person's socioeconomic status (irrespective of ethnicity) has any relation to how likely they are to damage/destroy another's property, be inconsiderate in general, etc? In other words, if you took 100 people (of any race, could even be all white for all I care) and put them in the same situation that sammy's "guests" were in, do you think the number of people that would have trashed his bushes and hose would have been disproportionately from the group of lower income & social status?

Tough question but a good one. At age 53 I probably don't relate to the idea of poor people being inherently disrespectful of other's property. In fact just the opposite. Here's why: I was born in East Los Angeles and my parents most definitely grew up poor. Of all our family and friends (and frankly - I'm ethnically Mexican, we had lots of family and extended family) to a person none of them would EVER have been disprespectful of other's property. Why? Because most of us had little in the way of "things". Things were hard to come by, we respected and largely admired others who had achieved the ability to acquire things. I'm sure there must have been petty jealousies but as a child I didn't see them. Later when my parents were able to buy a new house for a whopping $14,500 (Whittier, 1956) the relatives thought we had moved up in the world; all came to our house on the weekends; and ALL were careful to remove their shoes (hardwood floors), careful of everything!

But nowadays? I have to admit it does seem there is a widespread disprespect...well, more of an apathy - "just don't give a schit" or "it wouldn't occur to them to consider another person's concerns" among EVERYONE; black, brown, white. I can't speak to being poor white, or poor black but to a degree I can speak to being poor Asian. My brother-in-law of 32 years grew up with 6 siblings and poor. Family in the wholesale flower business. Now they are quite affluent but in their childhood days they struggled. Over the years he and I have discussed this stuff and it is surprising the number of consistencies among ehtnic minorities. The respect for elders, the familial closeness, and the respect for others.

Yes, things may definitely be changing. I HOPE it's because of an influx of new immigrants (whether legal or not) that don't "relate" to being concerned about a shrub...but I fear it may not be. And that is a very sad state of affairs.

Jeff, thanks for posing the question so well (and thoughtfully).

[Burnin' oil]

Saturday night some 20 something chick lost control of her Tahoe and went into my orchard. She took out a four year old tree and a sprinkler, not to mention leaving a couple hundred feet of deep tracks. When she and her father came the next morning to get the car, not a word of apology or an offer to repair the damage. I do not understand that attitude but it was an opportunity to remind my kids of their obligation to take responsibility for their screw-ups.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Burnin Oil - That sucks. Another small but annoying example of people being inconsiderate - I tend to hold the door open for people if they are near as I enter a store for example. Some people are genuinely surprised and say a hearty, "Thanks" or "Thanks a lot". Others just walk past without even acknowledging you did anything. Once in a while I've said, "Oh, you're welcome" out loud after they passed and they look back with the most odd expression. Like they're mad instead of embarassed. I don't get it.

I'm tempted to stop ever holding a door for anyone but then I'd be letting their lack of manners teach me a lack of manners. I'm trying to do better as I get older instead of being the typical increasingly cynical, embittered and complaining older person. I can't say how much I don't want to be THAT person.

[craigster59]

I agree with you Dan, it can get frustrating sometimes. It's easy to get a cynical "why bother" attitude when there is no acknowledgement of thanks, but the majority of people show appreciation. I split my time living in 2 small towns where helping one another is a way of life, and I do admit, inconsideration and ignorance are "color blind". You just have to believe in Karma and the satisfaction that you've helped someone out of a jam. Acts of kindness may seem few and far between these days, but it's good to know you're making a difference.

[nostatic]

I've been wanting to post a rant about people at my local Peets. There have been a number of people who are just totally inconsiderate, rude slobs. They make a total mess, let their kids run around uncontrolled, then drive off. In their Mercedes SUV. I won't mention ethnicity because frankly it seems to cross borders but I will say that there do seem to be some tendencies in attitudes that are culturally based.

No, I don't think that lower socioeconomic are more prone to assh*le behavior. In fact, I think that well-off are more likely to have the sense of entitlement and assume that some lackey will come clean their crap up.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I've been wanting to post a rant about people at my local Peets. ......... I won't mention ethnicity because frankly it seems to cross borders but I will say that there do seem to be some tendencies in attitudes that are culturally based.

Well done.
You suggested much more than I did but you said it in a way that won't give anyone ammo to call you names. Do you give lessons?

But seriously, what's a "peets"?

[sammyg2]

I've calmed down a little, hopefully the over-reacting and over-sensitive have also.

I was not mad at these people because they were hispanic. I was not mad at them simply because they were immigrants (and the overwelming odds say they are illegal). If I had a problem with them just being mexican immigrants I would have refused to help them. I didn't.

I was mad at them because I was cool to them and trusted them when lots of other people would have told them to shove off, and then they trashed part of my property.
That was why I was pissed.
When they pissed me off, part of me wanted some sort of retribution (being human, we tend to do that sort of thing). How? Deport their a$$es. If German or Irish or Scottish immigrants had done the same thing to my shrub my reaction would have been exactly the same.

Dan, how about you try to be reasonable? My comments were not racially motivated, they weren't anti-mexican and you know it. My own children have 25% mexican heritage.
But you did your best to try and make it look like I was biggot. Why? What did you hope to gain? Go back and re-read the posts, you took things out of context, you manipulated the truth, you changed my words around, all in an attempt to paint me as a racist.
Did someone pee in your cheerios and you wanted to get even? Are you pissed because I have spoke out against illegal immigration in the past (all forms of illegal immigration from all countries) and that hurt your feelings?
Not cool at all.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by nostatic

.... let their kids run around uncontrolled....

Oh man, don't EVEN get me started on people who don't control their kids. I would add, "...in public" but it is obvious to they NEVER control their kids.

Geeezuzzz people, grow a set will ya? My opinion is that if you teach children "No" from the time they are very small and that "no" means "no" not, "ask me another 30 times until I get so sick of hearing it that I give in," then they'll learn it.

Expect a lot, get a lot. Talk TO your kids when they need it but not more than you talk WITH your kids - they know the difference. That's how I raised my kids and at ages 25 and 26 - so far, so good.

[Neilk]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Well done.

But seriously, what's a "peets"?

Peet's Coffee Shop... a better Starbucks.

[PatrickB]

Originally Posted by craigster59

Couldn't you just get another Mexican to fix the shrub? Most of them are gardeners/landscapers, when they're not doing drywall...

That's right... Because they continue to do the jobs that most American's refuse to do... (For half the wages and NO benefits.)