Jeremy Clarkson on Scoobie Roos...

[livi]

Excellent! The manīs brilliance is evident is this very thread. He is a very skilled entertainer and he knows exactly how to get everyones attention. Whether you happen to agree with him or not. Quite frankly he is also one of the most funny people to listen to around. He is in some ways a modern version of Monty Python.

[SLO-BOB]

Originally Posted by stuartj

I can tell you from direct experience that the only area where a (non/lightly modded) 964 exceeds a non modded WrX (and not an STi) is in its long legs. The Porsche will go much faster at the top end. The fastest Ive seen on a WRX in 217kmh (radar checked on a proving bowl during a, err, rally) and the 964 will eat that. Else, the Wrx is the equal of the 964. Till it rains ofcourse.

STis will eat 964s them for breakfast, albeit they are (still I think) elctroniclly limited to around 200kmh.

I have both a 964 and a WRX and have driven them both in various forms of comepetive motorsport. If you are going faster than STis on the track, it because of you, holding all else equal.

I going to go ahead and disagree with you on this. I have never been on the track with a WRX (that I know of) only STis. The two that come to mind last time were modified. One was an instructor, and the other, a fellow student. I spent a great deal of time with those two cars as we were the fastest in our run group. I was pretty much slotted between the two. Once and a while we would get one up on the other and get ahead, but the instructor was clearly the superior driver and stayed ahead mostly. In the corners, the STis did seem to have an advantage but not so much so that it made a difference in lap times at RA. That said, if I was doing well, I was all over them in the tight stuff. If I was doing poorly, the opposite. When we got on the long straights, of which there are plenty at Road America, I could pretty much reel them in. My terminal speed at the end of the straight was definitely higher than theirs. I also braked later. No. They were not "easing up". In fact, I almost bought it in the kink when I was sandwiched between the two, this time the student in the lead. I knew coming off the carousel the instructor was faster coming into the kink so instead of lining up th apex I was checking my mirror which is a big mistake right there. I blew the apex by about 5 feet. At that point I was faced with the dreaded situation where I had to "lift" in the kink at about 100 mph. And lift I did - causing the tail to kick out. I immediately got back on the gas once I wasn't pointing directly at the wall. Fortunately, the car hooked up and I was off unscathed. We (the STi guys and I) talked between sessions and the instructor told me he saw the whole thing unfold and thought I was a goner. He said the inside rear wheel came about 5 inches off the ground and then when I got on it, it eased right back down. That said, neither of the STi drivers expressed any surprise that my 964 was running with them. In fact, the instructor mentioned that he was previously a 911 driver but switched to the STi because it was easier to get around the track quickly. I guess that's up to the individual. I love the way 911s handle. They seem to fit my style.

Frankly, the two STi drivers were better than me. Why my 250+ HP 964 kept up with 300+ HP STis I don't know. Gearing? Aerodynamics? Suspension? Tires? I just know what I know. That is my direct experience.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by livi

Quite frankly he is also one of the most funny people to listen to around..

I agree. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the reality is that Clarkson loves the STi.
What better topic than one with which you are enamored to play comic devil's advocate with? That being the case, or not, he's a talented comedian, one of whose tactics, I think, is to be a mischievous rabble rouser - especially funny because he comes off as a funny, floppy faced little boy grown huge.

[RallyJon]

FWIW, the very reason that I now daily drive a 993 C4 instead of the STI is because it was a hotted up econobox. I stand firmly by my direct experience that the STI was superior to the 993 in every measurable way. Much quicker--so much faster accelerating there's no comparison, better handling, better shifting, quicker steering, tremendously better at getting power to the ground, made better use of tires--more traction than the lighter Porsche has with bigger tires. And let's not forget bulletproof, easy to work on, cheap, etc.

But in the end it was the rewards for finesse of driving the 993 that won me over. That and it looks amazing instead of like a 19 year-old's scooped and winged wet dream.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by stuartj

You think a Mazda 3 and an STi are comparable cars?

Read a bit closer my friend, Mazdaspeed 3. To answer your question, no they are not comparable. The STi has the obvious edge in performance, I only brought up the Mazdaspeed because it is another turbocharged sports hatchback. However, I'd rather have the Mazdaspeed3 and $10-15k in my pocket than an STi.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Read a bit closer my friend, Mazdaspeed 3. To answer your question, no they are not comparable. The STi has the obvious edge in performance, I only brought up the Mazdaspeed because it is another turbocharged sports hatchback. However, I'd rather have the Mazdaspeed3 and $10-15k in my pocket than an STi.

Never seen those. Just got a new Miata- i think Mazda makes a great car, but this new MX5 is soft. Traction control for gods sake, which actually pulls about half the available 150hp off the car in normal traffic. I imagine Mazda is uing similar technology to tame a front wheel drive with 260bhp.

Thats as much power as a 964 makes, delivered through the front wheels. The car we shpuld campare to is the WRX, not the Sti. I would be suprised if the WRX couldnt cut the Mazdas lunch with superior power delivery and traction- but I stand to be corrected.

[Bob Goding]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Anyone that gets mad at Clarkson does not understand him. He's about 90% tounge-in-cheek, 10% serious. The guy is here to entertain, you have to roll with it and laugh along. When it comes to that, the man is a master. If you want pure information, watch 5th Gear.

I would like to ask Clarkson how difficult it is to get the tongue in the cheek,with his head that far up his arse?

[Netspeed]

Originally Posted by livi

Excellent! The manīs brilliance is evident is this very thread. He is a very skilled entertainer and he knows exactly how to get everyones attention. Whether you happen to agree with him or not. Quite frankly he is also one of the most funny people to listen to around. He is in some ways a modern version of Monty Python.

+1

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Never seen those. Just got a new Miata- i think Mazda makes a great car, but this new MX5 is soft. Traction control for gods sake, which actually pulls about half the available 150hp off the car in normal traffic. I imagine Mazda is uing similar technology to tame a front wheel drive with 260bhp.

Thats as much power as a 964 makes, delivered through the front wheels. The car we shpuld campare to is the WRX, not the Sti. I would be suprised if the WRX couldnt cut the Mazdas lunch with superior power delivery and traction- but I stand to be corrected.

Agreed, it's much closer to the WRX. However, it's the only other sporty turbo hatch I could think of, sadly. I think the Mazdaspeed has a factory LSD to help quell the torque steer. The reviews I have read claim it does a pretty good job.

We need more sporty hatchbacks. I love my Saab 9000 Aero, and there's really not many modern equivalents. Amazing the amount of stuff you can cram in a hatchback.