Why do some people hate Apple/Mac?

[Rearden]

Apple = Prius

for the cult, it has the proper smug cred. For everybody else, it's ghey.

[techweenie]

Apple is the most admired company in America, according to Fortune.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/mostadmired/2008/index.html

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Similar situation to Moses. Ran my own business solely on Macs for 16 years. I'm at an Internet techonology company now, and a year ago had the only Mac. Now fully 25% of the employees have switched over. Not because I evangelized, but because they are programmers and engineers and noticed the total lack of issues with OSX and the hardware (in strong contrast to their experiences with the declining numbers of Dells).

Could also have something to do with the fact that OS X ships with apache, perl, sql, Ruby etc... all installed.

[Mule]

I bet Warren Buffet is puking over the fact that some nimrod developed a list that puts a boutique computer co ahead of his firm that has made him the richest man on the planet. Stupid article.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Rearden

Apple = Porsche

for the cult, it has the proper smug cred. For everybody else, it's ghey.

fixed it for ya...

[Mule]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Could also have something to do with the fact that OS X ships with apache, perl, sql, Ruby etc... all installed.

Probably more due to designer snob appeal.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Rearden

Apple = Louis Vitton

for the cult, it has the proper smug cred. For everybody else, it's gheyTO.

Really fixed!

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Could also have something to do with the fact that OS X ships with apache, perl, sql, Ruby etc... all installed.

Well, that sucks, all that extra bloat.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Mule

Probably more due to designer snob appeal.

Obvious from your response that you have no idea what I was talking about.

[kstar]

Here's the stat I posted yesterday from a screen grab of the SDK meeting yesterday - source is at the bottom.

FWIW.

[Sapporo Guy]

I have never had a virus.
I started using apple computers in 1985.

The worst "virus" I had was actually a "hack" ... made my space bar beep when I used it. Drop hack in trash ... 5 minutes out of 22 good years of usage.

I'm a heavy user, as in time, utility, and in physical abuse.
Hardware problems have been:
90's
- 1 frozen seagate drive in 1990 (grease leaked)
2000's
- DOA screens found at purchase time (notebooks)
- 1 powerbook started to have monitor flakeyness only on startup ... but I forgot if this was before the wife pounding on the keyboard or after ... I got the waranty to cover it.
- My ex whacking the ***** out of my keyboard with the vacum cleaner (tank and tube type) nozzle head (heavier than a whiffle bat by far) ... keys flew every where. I bought 2 off of an auction ... still am typing away right now with them.
- cats pee'd on my desktop keyboard ... pried it slightly apart, soaped it up, ran it under the faucet for 3-4 minutes ... once it dried out, it never gave me a problem.
- have literally slammed my powerbook on the ground after slipping on a ice patch (it was in one of those cushion softcases ... not a full bag) ... dented it in several areas and need to pry apart the opening to the cd/dvd drive. The machine is now a little more picky about cheapo DVD discs but not CDs ...)
- tripped over the cord for my powerbook and so has my daughter about 4 times. 2 foot drops ... no visible problem.

OS wise:
- No kernel panics
- I used to do a lot of web work so browser refresh would cause the cache to grow and grow ... restart takes care of freeing up memory and cache. I put this here because Safari is an Apple product but could also be considered 3rd party.
- No software conflicts
- I have frozen my system before ... still not sure what the problem was ...

3rd party:
- windoze only printers (esoteric models only so far) have stumped and stopped me before
- memory pig browsers causing slow downs and restarts
- no rootkits from sony
- can play any CD without something being added to my system
- I can actually read those virsus emails and not have to worry
- I don't need Nortons, AVG or any other security software (money, time and update time saved)
- internet problems ???? what is that? Yes, there was a quicktime problem or something like that last year ... but ... I have been to many swanky and iffy places on the net.
- lack of service by certain businesses because they only support IE properitary standards ... I downloaded Opera at the time ... faked my way in.
- I am locked into a proprietary software for the Japanese Post Office. To use that dam software I have to keep a floppy in my machine (no, external usb won't work). Even though this is a WinTel issue I post it here to show that Apple does not have full support by all software companies.
- games, games, games .... apple suscks big time!

Training? That's the interesting thing. I've taken a complete newbie to computers and had them up and running within hours. Most time was spent on using Word, Browser and mail. Computer basics. Almost no time on the actual OS.

Consultant? Maybe for heavy duty networking but in general, Apple system help was more than enough to figure out my problems ... However, I still can't really understand what the hell is going on in my router and its internal software.


I have always thought in general you pay more for Apple hardware but the long term cost of ownership normally either becomes cheaper or will break even compared to any cheapo grey box ... even those that cost next to nothing to build (you still have to count the time of building those machines, the time to figure out what software needs to be installed and what not).


yes, I am a mac user and I have built my pc boxes, and have 2 pc boxes in my office.


This goes back to my time allotment idea.
Your time = money $$$

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Scott R

Well, that sucks, all that extra bloat.

Not an issue for a robust OS like X.

Yeah, and Dells, HP,s Toshibas etc... don't ship with bloatware.

At least it's functional stuff, not useless, irritating feature crippled or time limited try before you buy apps that you guys spend hours removing

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Not an issue for a robust OS like X.

Yeah, and Dells, HP,s Toshibas etc... don't ship with bloatware.

At least it's functional stuff, not useless, irritating feature crippled or time limited try before you buy apps that you guys spend hours removing

Dell ships with nothing more than you select, it can even be a blank os.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Obvious from your response that you have no idea what I was talking about.

Could be. or it could be that since few of those folks are hosting web sites at their desk, Apache doesn't get a lot of use. Sql & perl are owned by most companies of any size already. As has been pointed out here already, programming tools are way more available for pc's. Hence the correctness of my statement.

[Sapporo Guy]

Sorry Mule ...
apache, perl, sql, Ruby are not designer issues.

They are the very things that power this board.
Apache = Web Server
perl, ruby (this board uses php) = programing languages
SQL = the database of a site (these days) ... in a sense a programming language.

for many these options = bloatware.
However, I guess you wouldn't call all those free demos and what not that comes with your OEM windoze CD bloat.



But can you turn XP/Vista into webserver with 1 click?

OSX is very much a work tool and not just some fancy UI dressing and eye candy.
It is very much a geek toy.

Apple is only a "boutique" computer company because of total world sales. Not because the OS is the problem. Apple themselves are the problem. But then again ... Warren Buffet probably uses macs

Eventhough, I am a mac user, I still believe that each OS has it's own benefits and flaws.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Sapporo Guy

Sorry Mule ...


But can you turn XP/Vista into webserver with 1 click?

Yes.

[tchanson]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Yeah, and Dells, HP,s Toshibas etc... don't ship with bloatware.

At least it's functional stuff, not useless, irritating feature crippled or time limited try before you buy apps that you guys spend hours removing

FWIW, my new Dell XPS laptop received last week didn't have a single piece of bloatware crap. None.





Tim

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Sapporo Guy

Sorry Mule ...
apache, perl, sql, Ruby are not designer issues.

They are the very things that power this board.
Apache = Web Server
perl, ruby (this board uses php) = programing languages
SQL = the database of a site (these days) ... in a sense a programming language.

for many these options = bloatware.
However, I guess you wouldn't call all those free demos and what not that comes with your OEM windoze CD bloat.



But can you turn XP/Vista into webserver with 1 click?

OSX is very much a work tool and not just some fancy UI dressing and eye candy.
It is very much a geek toy.

Apple is only a "boutique" computer company because of total world sales. Not because the OS is the problem. Apple themselves are the problem. But then again ... Warren Buffet probably uses macs

Eventhough, I am a mac user, I still believe that each OS has it's own benefits and flaws.

You must have written this before you read my post.

[Sapporo Guy]

yes, I am sure there are success stories for the WinTel world.

Apache vs Windows server? Interesting to know the stats.
there are others but ...

I have a funny feeling that Pelican is run on Apache. not Windows Server.
PPOT gets a lot of use

perl, ruby, zope, php, .net, java, asp are scripting languages ... not programs.
What kind of hopes do you have to go through to install these on XP/Vista?

fortran, pascal, C, C+ ... are programing languages ... not programs.

code warrior, eclipse are programing tools, like visual studio (I think that is what's it's name is).
2 out of 3 for OSX ... that's not bad

Does sheer number of programs make your computer / OS better?
If so, you better run down to your local Apple store and get a Mac

Virtualization hasn't even been brought up!
Apple hardware can now run Windoze straight via a partition or through 3rd party virtualization products ... I guess now that in reality WinTel doesn't really have that many applications after all.

product count for non-virtualization winTel box.
software for windoze + installed *nix based programs (using a bootloader)

product count for non-virtualization MacTel box.
software for windoze + installed *nix based programs (using a bootloader) + Apple pre OSX apps + OSX software

note: I don't use classic in virtualiztion so this may have been faded out ... ahhh just knock a few thousand titles from the total for Apple

Apple (MacTel) hardware is a PC !
However, to be more correct, all computers are PCs
PC = Personal Computer

[Sapporo Guy]

Scott R ...

I meant by the above that OSX is basically a paired down server with functionality already installed and you just need to turn it on ... no other work is involved.

really? Ok, I am not sure what you mean ... Are you referring to installers that you download and then click ... or to windows server which would be compareable to Apple's OSX server edition.




Actually, I am glad that Dell and others have changed there policies.
So, take the point away from OSX total.