Why do some people hate Apple/Mac?

[Sapporo Guy]

Thanks for the information!

yes, you are right! OSX vs Vista was a bit of cheap shot

ugh, forgot that IBM had DOS/V stuff.
lolo, AIX is Apple

Really? M$ had XENIX ?!?!? I didn't know that. hmmm, I had always thought they just bought a DOS company and then beat IBM to the punch for Intel machines.
I did know that Word really got a kick start because of the Macintosh.
However, I'd wonder if XENIX was so good then why didn't it get more attention? (not being sarcastical here ... just really would like to know)

As for Sun ... I do agree it isn't the only reason but I don't think they are helping out the Opensource community just because they feel like it's "right thing to do" ... there has to be a bottom $ line to their actions.


Toaddy, one thing for sure, your major is definitely being useful here
( I'd go to paradise though )

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Sapporo Guy

PS, why does Apple/OS have a bigger share than Vista ????

'Cause, ---- it doesn't? I'm just saying.

View Trend Windows Vista 9.19%
View Trend MacIntel 3.59%
View Trend Mac OS 3.22%

[slakjaw]

Originally Posted by Mule

Apple is a fine product. It excels a a small number of tasks. They have their strong points & weak points just like anything else. I just get tired of the folks who want to tell me that a Mac can run faster, jump higher, dive deeper & come up drier.

+1

[Moses]

Originally Posted by Mule

Opinions are like well, mouths lets say, but facts is facts. Porsche has been drilling all you guys in the ass price wise for so long it doesn't hurt any more! I got a Kia Sephia, 4 doors, fuel injected, gets 38 MPG for $6000.00. You can barely get a rusty 914 for that.

Got it.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Moses

Got it.

Not so much. It appears you're still wandering in the desert there Mo. Maybe a Kia can run with your Porsche, not mine. It does excel at gas mileage. Just like a Mac excels at something, whatever that is.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Mule

Not so much. It appears you're still wandering in the desert there Mo. Maybe a Kia can run with your Porsche, not mine. It does excel at gas mileage. Just like a Mac excels at something, whatever that is.

It excels at having a shiny case.

[lendaddy]

I don't see how you can claim a Mac is a "higher performance" experience as insinuated in the Porsche/Kia response. Does it get to web pages faster? Do they look better? Does Quicken do different things on a Mac? Can you write better papers on a Mac? Do spreadsheets perform more equations? What is the performance advantage?

Outside of the virus issues (which is big), I don't have a clue what the claim could be. Maybe the iLife stuff (which is software)?

[Sapporo Guy]

View Trend Windows Vista 9.19%
View Trend MacIntel 3.59%
View Trend Mac OS 3.22%

oopps
my bad ... I need to learn how to add

[Mule]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

I don't see how you can claim a Mac is a "higher performance" experience as insinuated in the Porsche/Kia response. Does it get to web pages faster? Do they look better? Does Quicken do different things on a Mac? Can you write better papers on a Mac? Do spreadsheets perform more equations? What is the performance advantage?

Outside of the virus issues (which is big), I don't have a clue what the claim could be. Maybe the iLife stuff (which is software)?

Viruses are not that big a deal any more really. But what the PC can never do is give you this kind of luxuriant shimmering hair.

[lendaddy]

I agree that the build quality is better and the designs are more attractive but none of this affects function in any real way. Then there is the "intuitive" claim, which certainly could make sense but in the real world I don't see it. I mean I'm no power user but I never have to pause to figure out how to do things on my computer, can someone give me an example of how I'm being held back on a PC?

In the end it's less like the cars analogy and more like this: A PC is a frosty glass mug full of good beer for $2.80. A Mac is forged aluminum frosty mug with some cool inscriptions on it full of the same beer for $3.50.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

I don't see how you can claim a Mac is a "higher performance" experience as insinuated in the Porsche/Kia response. Does it get to web pages faster? Do they look better? Does Quicken do different things on a Mac? Can you write better papers on a Mac? Do spreadsheets perform more equations? What is the performance advantage?

Outside of the virus issues (which is big), I don't have a clue what the claim could be. Maybe the iLife stuff (which is software)?

First virus hit mac in 2006 and its been on the incline ever since.

[island911]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

This is screendump from one of our Wintel servers. It's online 24/7, last time I had to reboot it was beacuse of UPS change. It never goes down, I can replace it's failed discs on the fly. 300+ users, 80 printers and god knows what more. It costs as much as typical hi-end Mac and it can do sooo much more.


Frankly, I see Mac's as niche products. It's like comparing a VW Beetle or Toyota Prius to F150 Truck. It's nice and it has built-in flower vase but in the end, when you need something done, you use the truck.

The funny part is, Mac's are nothing more nowadays than styled PC's that boot OS X. There will always be a niche for Mac's (mostly for computer-challenged customers) but as somebody said before: if all Mac's stopped, the world would keep spinning as usual and couple of Art directors would be pissed.

If all PC's stopped....yeah baby....that would be a meltdown.

Excellent post!

To answer dd.'s legitimate (not trolling)question:
I don't think that people hate Apple/Mac product anymore than any other piece of electronic gagitry...: but people are often disappointed in Apple product when they follow those diehard loyalist fanboi's enthusiasm all the way to the Apple store, only to find out that for every advantage Apple may seem to have, there will be equal, or more, disadvantages.

The closest thing to "hate" that I can see is not for the product but rather for the pious behavior of the Apple fanboy. It's that over zealous pushy sell job that is so annoying. Apple products are just a sideways alternative... a different mix of features. Sure, I will listen to and investigate the next Apple offering. as I do for so many other tech toy mfg's. But I will apply an "exaggeration factor" from the Apple hype machine and fanboys..

[Sapporo Guy]

Trying to keep things to an OS issue, where does a product excell at something?
How about -- time allotment.

Less time dealing with OEM Windows versus a pure Windows install
The ability to use the UI system more proficiently
The problem of DIY versus shelf bought units
Having a limited number of choices for software versus X number choices for similar software
Trying to figure which version of Vista is best for you ( ... this is a sarcastic comment)
having to learn proprietary standards even though open standards are available (thinking of web programming)


If time allotment is spent for things outside of regular usage, then -- yes, if your computer is having problems with this or that because of an OS issue then you will see a difference.

I'd like to discount the virus situation because over time with OSX market (possibly) increasing OSX will become a target, so number of viruses could theoretically even out.
... the question is whether UNIX is easier to hack than XP/Vista/future version


I do agree with Mule. Today Macs do not come out on top any more. Back in the day ... I might have disagreed.

Macs don't have a speed benefit outside of possibly releasing something slightly earlier.
I think that hardware is a non-issue since the chipsets are the same for Apple and other intel box makers. There might be a difference in quality ... just like car parts made in China but is that really going to make a difference in regular length usage? I doubt it.

Speaking of which, are the intel chips now better than the Power line? Let's keep AMD out of the issue
Also, was wondering if the Cell chip will ever become a PC type or will it just stay an appliance item ....

web pages, if designed to open standards will look different if one browser doesn't parse according to those standards. Latest on the browsers is, who is going to be acid3 compatible and still not bug ridden.


Apple vs M$ just doesn't make any sense ...
Apple and Microsoft are different. Why do people consistently try to compare them?
Microsft is basically a software company.
Apple is a all in one company.
Microsoft's all in one products are the zune and xbox. Are there others ????

So let's compare the xBox to a mini
or
keep it to OSX vs XP/Vista


Kia to porsche is like a genereic box to a mac ???
I don't get it ...
build quality, design, long term performance, resale value, "hard to value" ownership pride and what not are different.

I can see:
Kia = newspaper Dells
Porsche = Apple

Carrying a Dell notebook versus an Apple notebook is different.
Both will do the same job, just like a Kia or a porsche, but it's sometimes the intangibles that make the difference. (lolo, IMO a powerbook/mac book pro feels better to me )

lolo, maybe Apple represents Yuppies ?????

I am not a yuppie, actually, I'm too poor to be one

[SlowToady]

AIX is IBM, AUX is Apple. IIRC, AUX didn't fair too well, but was somewhat interesting. I've never been able to get my hands on one, but I've wanted to play with AUX for some time. AUX literally stands for Apple UNIX.

XENIX did get more attention, after MS sold it to SCO who then, IIRC, spun it into Unix-Ware. Unix-Ware for awhile was a very good system, that SCO eventually managed to turn into ****. Also, I think, but can't recall exactly, XENIX had somewhat hefty hardware requirements for its day.

The $$ component is definitely in SUN's equation, you'll get no denial from me, or SUN, about that By open sourcing, they attract not only the crowd that wants to use open software, and doesn't need/want support, but those that have traditionally used SUN, and want to continue doing so, and don't mind paying for support. And, it allows them to sell more hardware. Sure, Solaris is open source, but support contracts start at $350/yr, and if you don't have a support contract, you don't get patches for stuff. Only security patches I think.

Thanks, I try to make at least some useful posts for all the bull**** I post and ranting I do

Originally Posted by Sapporo Guy

ugh, forgot that IBM had DOS/V stuff.
lolo, AIX is Apple

Really? M$ had XENIX ?!?!? I didn't know that. hmmm, I had always thought they just bought a DOS company and then beat IBM to the punch for Intel machines.
I did know that Word really got a kick start because of the Macintosh.
However, I'd wonder if XENIX was so good then why didn't it get more attention? (not being sarcastical here ... just really would like to know)

As for Sun ... I do agree it isn't the only reason but I don't think they are helping out the Opensource community just because they feel like it's "right thing to do" ... there has to be a bottom $ line to their actions.


Toaddy, one thing for sure, your major is definitely being useful here
( I'd go to paradise though )

[SlowToady]

Intel better than POWER? Not a chance. The POWER-6 is the fastest CPU available right now. The benchmarks and specs should be on IBM.com

(Unless you meant Power-PC, which is a derivative of the POWER architecture. That I wouldn't know.)

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

A PC is a frosty glass mug full of good beer for $2.80. A Mac is forged aluminum frosty mug with some cool inscriptions on it full of the same beer for $3.50.

Good one.

Ian

[Moses]

I have run my medical practice on Macs for 15 years now. It's a small office. I use a network of 7 computers. The software is complicated, including billing, business management, claims, electronic medical records, etc.

In 15 years I have never has an IT contract. I have never had an IT consult. In 15 years, my network has not been "down" even a single day. I'm no computer expert, but I installed my network myself with little hassle.

Every computer on my network as well as 5 more Macs at my home have NEVER HAD A VIRUS. (My 17 year old son's Mac has been to some scary places on the internet. No viruses.)

My accountant manages only medical and dental practices. His group is frequently published in accounting periodicals. Our accountants like to track costs and compare practices. When they compared computer related costs for nearly 100 medical practices, the offices running Macs were consistently more cost effective. The top 4 spots were taken by practices that run on Macs. (Apples medical practice market share is still quite small).

It's easy to train new employees to use a Mac. (Most of my employees have been so impressed by the Macs we use at work that they have switched to Macs for home computing.)
Mine have been trouble free for 15 years.
No viruses in 15 years.
Networking, upgrading, peripheral connections are dead simple.
Much lower cost than a comparable PC bases system.

My Macs are workhorses. I'm keeping them.

[Sapporo Guy]

This is not considering used/ebay pricing.

What is the cost of the beer itself?

What is the OEM price for the Vista Versions?
Can normal folk buy a version direct?

OSX 10.5 = $129.00

Full versions

* Windows Vista Home Basic: $199
* Windows Vista Home Premium: $239
* Windows Vista Business: $299
* Windows Vista Ultimate: $399

price cut article here:
http://blogs.computerworld.com/vista_price_cuts



No, Apple did not offer an upgrade. Upgrade Version prices are a better deal than Apple's pay to play system.

However, Apple didn't need to knee jerk to kick along their new system either. Users probably felt that the price to upgrade was worth it are under the influence of the jobso mind warp.
But if Vista is so good then why cut it's price so early in the game? Could Ballmer have dones another sweaty dance routine for us?


Home Basic seems to be the version that compares better to OSX. Other versions would be buying the additional software like iLife and iWork to catch up to premium. However, Home basic does not give you Aero ...

ummm, so sorry ... $1.29 for a glass that costs you $1.99 or if you want the head on your beer $2.39.


I do agree with the price of the mugs though.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Moses

I have run my medical practice on Macs for 15 years now. It's a small office. I use a network of 7 computers. The software is complicated, including billing, business management, claims, electronic medical records, etc.

In 15 years I have never has an IT contract. I have never had an IT consult. In 15 years, my network has not been "down" even a single day. I'm no computer expert, but I installed my network myself with little hassle.

Every computer on my network as well as 5 more Macs at my home have NEVER HAD A VIRUS. (My 17 year old son's Mac has been to some scary places on the internet. No viruses.)

My accountant manages only medical and dental practices. His group is frequently published in accounting periodicals. Our accountants like to track costs and compare practices. When they compared computer related costs for nearly 100 medical practices, the offices running Macs were consistently more cost effective. The top 4 spots were taken by practices that run on Macs. (Apples medical practice market share is still quite small).

It's easy to train new employees to use a Mac. (Most of my employees have been so impressed by the Macs we use at work that they have switched to Macs for home computing.)
Mine have been trouble free for 15 years.
No viruses in 15 years.
Networking, upgrading, peripheral connections are dead simple.
Much lower cost than a comparable PC bases system.

My Macs are workhorses. I'm keeping them.

Sounds like you should! This is the first post by a Mac person actually stating some fact. It sounds like your accountant is on to a good software package. It also sounds like you are pretty adept. Somebody is training your people. Maybe you don't need a consultant 'cause you're capable of it yourself. I would have a hard time believing that you are hiring folks that come in off the street & "pick it up."

Do you think there are similar PC stories?

[techweenie]

Similar situation to Moses. Ran my own business solely on Macs for 16 years. I'm at an Internet techonology company now, and a year ago had the only Mac. Now fully 25% of the employees have switched over. Not because I evangelized, but because they are programmers and engineers and noticed the total lack of issues with OSX and the hardware (in strong contrast to their experiences with the declining numbers of Dells).