Pissed at realtor am I wrong here?

[Jims5543]

I have my vacation up for sale online on Zillow.

It has actually worked out pretty good with a few calls a some showings, more than a realtor I fired could muster up.

So I was contacted my Mary and she came and looked at the house 3 times with her husband, one time Procon opened up the house for me when I was not there.

Mary passed on it but told Jane Doe about it at work and Jane and John Doe contacted me to see it. I was in town and made time for them to see it.

2 weeks pass and I am e-mailed by a realtor, who "saw my add" and wanted to know if there was a commission for realtors because he thinks he has an "intertested party" that would be perfect for the house.

I informed him I priced the house very low for a quick sale but would pay out a $5000 commission to a selling agent.

We I just received a formal offer on the house for $10,000 below my asking price plus I pay another $5000 commission to the realtor.

The problem is the offer is from John and Jane Doe.


I countered back with $5,000 below my asking price and $3,000 commission and I think that commission is a gift at this point. I told the realtor if he needed more commission to take it up with the buyers since they felt they needed representation.



Am I wrong to be pissed off that the realtor was not forthright as to who the "interested party" was??

[Jim Richards]

It's just business. Set your price and negotiate to it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

John and Jane Doe may have been working with a realtor at the time, and just didn't tell you. If so, they probably signed an agreement to not purchase a home without first going through the realtor. It's a bit slimy, as the realtor didn't even show their clients your home. Essentially you'd be paying the realtor a fee to broker the sale.

If you have the contact info for John and Jane, you could fight back by directly contacting them and offering to sell the house to them directly for a lower price. Of course, you still have to pay someone to broker the deal.

EDIT: tell the realtor that you don't feel responsible for paying the entire commission because they did not bring you the client, or show the home. Find out what a dedicated real estate broker charges (flat fee) then offer that amount to the realtor. Negotiate the home price seperately so John and Jane feel they're getting a better deal.

[TerryH]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

I have my vacation up for sale online on Zillow.


Am I wrong to be pissed off that the realtor was not forthright as to who the "interested party" was??

It's not like he was going to get away with anything, so not being upfront on this was just stupid. You are under no obligation to sell to anyone.

I would peeved too and make it a point in front of his new clients. Perhaps you should suggest to the buyers to find new representation.

Market being what it is, probably best to get your price and sell.

[Zeke]

That's a tough one. My guess is technically you owe the commission if you accept the offer. You want out of this one, don't accept. But, under no circumstances ever deal with the Does again or you will get had.

One more thing: I think you should contact the Realtor and tell him/her that you made a mistake. You meant to say your counter was for 3K below listed price with a 5K commission. If you wanted to negotiate the commission, you should have left that door open a while back.

disclaimer: I am neither a Realtor or an attorney.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

For my $.02, they probably have a contractual agreement with the realtor. I would NOT pay more than 3% commission to the realtor, but even that could be negotiable. They have the contract not you. If you had not broken into the negotiation, I doubt you would have anything binding you to pay a plug nickel. You might not even have anything binding if they start negotiating...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Nah, everything is negotiable in real estate. We purchased a home from a real SOB, he was pissed off that his realtor didn't get him a better price, then even madder that we wanted a new roof. He walked away from the closing table, and demanded that both realtors cut their commission or he would walk. This was AT CLOSING! My wife was in tears, and had the deal fallen apart I do believe she would have killed that man. Both realtors cut $500 from their commission and we closed the deal. That man was easily the most intolerable as$hole that I have ever met in my entire life. Needless to say, the neighbors are happy to have us.

[dad911]

Is it possible that the Realtor is a friend/relative of buyer? Perhaps the buyer is actually trying to get a further reduction in price this way.

[Jims5543]

Milt my offer for commission was based on information at hand. The information was not true, he was deceitful with me. I feel no real obligation to pay the full commission considering the circumstances. I also have no firm contract with the realtor, purely a verbal agreement, again, based on false pretenses.

I see where you coming from with the number flop Milt. I might offer the realtor that.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Nah, everything is negotiable in real estate. We purchased a home from a real SOB, he was pissed off that his realtor didn't get him a better price, then even madder that we wanted a new roof. He walked away from the closing table, and demanded that both realtors cut their commission or he would walk. This was AT CLOSING! My wife was in tears, and had the deal fallen apart I do believe she would have killed that man. Both realtors cut $500 from their commission and we closed the deal. That man was easily the most intolerable as$hole that I have ever met in my entire life. Needless to say, the neighbors are happy to have us.

You are correct, the commission is negotiable. I just wanted Jim to keep the Realtor on his side for now.

I don't think the SOB would have gotten away with that here in CA. First of all, there is no "closing" table. It's all done by paperwork, a lot of faxes.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by TerryH

It's not like he was going to get away with anything, so not being upfront on this was just stupid. You are under no obligation to sell to anyone.

I would peeved too and make it a point in front of his new clients. Perhaps you should suggest to the buyers to find new representation.

Market being what it is, probably best to get your price and sell.

The market in the Smokey Mountains is still alive and kicking and just now coming into season and will probably be a hot market this summer. Ask Procon who is in construction, I think he is booked up for almost 2 years!!

Part of me wants this over with before I break down and not sell it, another wants to hold on to it for a while. I just want to be 100% debt free again (no mortgage) and this sale will profit me decently to pay off every bill I have in the world.

I am getting ready for the bad times that may be coming soon.

[Zeke]

Oh, and don't forget to place contingencies on everything. Like no acceptance of an offer from anyone not pre-qualified for a loan. Sounds like the Does weren't necessarily looking for a vacation home until the heard about it from Mary. You need to build in "outs."

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

The market in the Smokey Mountains is still alive and kicking and just now coming into season and will probably be a hot market this summer. Ask Procon who is in construction, I think he is booked up for almost 2 years!!

Part of me wants this over with before I break down and not sell it, another wants to hold on to it for a while. I just want to be 100% debt free again (no mortgage) and this sale will profit me decently to pay off every bill I have in the world.

I am getting ready for the bad times that may be coming soon.

You gotta do what you gotta do.

[71T Targa]

When I was looking for a house I signed on with a 'buyers agent' without even realizing what I'd done. Then I found a house on my own and worked out most of the details with the seller.

When I let my agent know that I'd found something and wouldn't need their services they told me that I was under contract with them for the 3% commission. (or something close to that).

I called up the seller and told him what had happened and what my new offer was. (What I had originally offered less 3%). In my case he accepted, but I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd walked.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

At the end of the day for that deal, you're still putting less $$$ in your pocket because of the commission overhead than you would have otherwise gotten as a result of a straight FSBO sale. Is it worth it to you to take less $$$ in order to make the sale? That's the bottom line question.

If it's worth it to you, you pay out the $$$. If not, you tell them to bugger off and wait for the next offer.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Milt, the SOB in question lived in the San Diego area (army doctor). Normally everything would have been done via fax or certified mail, but the bastard wanted to be here IN PERSON. Lucky us. He was not overtly rude to us, but he wouldn't hardly look at his realtor. When the deal was done, his realtor extended his hand. The SOB simply said, "I don't believe that will be necessary" and ignored him. Awkward....

[dennis in se pa]

If you showed the house first then their relationship with the realtor is their problem, not yours. They may have agreed to pay him a commission, but you have not thus far. And he has "no procuring cause" to collect a commission from you because you showed these buyers your house.
If the numbers don't work walk away.

[Jim727]

Jim, I don't think you owe the realtor anything.

We were living in a condo after returning to the area, and a guest at a party said she loved the place andwould be interested in buying if we ever decide to sell. We asked if she was serious as we had actually been discussing moving into a house. Answer: Yes.

So far, so good. We have agreed on a price so my wife and I got a realtor to help us find our next home with a side agreement to pay him a flat fee to shepherd the paperwork on the condo. He was good with that and all was well in the galaxy. Next thing, the buyer shows up with a realtor who is angling for a commission.

Had the realtor contacted us initially as representative for the buyer we would have had no problem with that; however, it was clear that the realtor was a friend of the buyer and the buyer/realtor smelled a free-and-easy commission. I told the buyer that she could pay her realtor anything she wanted, but I had no relationship with the realtor and it would stay that way.

Sounds like you are in the same situation. Had the realtor contacted you initially and then brought the Does, or had the Does informed you that they had a realtor they were working with then you would have a reason to work through the realtor. That, however is not the case. In addition, the realtor's failure to mention that they were calling regarding a buyer with whom you had already developed a direct relationship indicates to me that the realtor deliberately withheld information for the purpose of getting you to accept a relationship. I consider that to be a dishonest introduction.

You have no way of knowing whether the buyer had a prior agreement with the realtor, but I think you were entitled to reasonable disclosure from the realtor which you didn't get. In my not-a-real-estate-professional opinion, you don't owe the reator a dime.

[MRM]

The realtor probably didn't know that John and Jane Doe had the contacts with you.

A realtor can add value by handling the closing and all the sales documents. I bought a house directly from the owner and used a closing company for the sales documents and to do the closing. They charged a very reasonable flat fee of something in the $500 range. Maybe you can get the realtor to go for something like that. $5,000 for a single phone call and offer sounds like the real estate agent taking advantage of someone.

I just had another thought. If you are paying a direct commission like that, the realtor should be working for you. If the realtor had a prior relationship with the Does, she probably has an exclusive contract with them saying she represents the Does. In most states realtors can't represent both the buyer and seller (dual agency) without at least disclosing it.

Another thought, "Realtor" is a trade name for real estate agents that belong to the national association of realtors, or something like that. They have an independent code of ethics and a complaint process that a lay person can follow. If the real estate agent is a Realtor, call up the local Realtor trade association representative and run the situation bu them and they can explain your rights under the trade organization's rules of ethics. The Realtor rules are not legally binding, but if the agent doesn't follow them she gets kicked out of the organization, which can destroy a career.

[Jims5543]

The Real Estate agent was very well aware that the Does went to my house and met me.

He was VERY misleading telling me they were up looking around the outside of my house and wanted to see the inside. The truth was they had already been inside my house and hung around for about 30 minutes chatting with my wife and I. Mr Doe is a cop and we were discussing his Charger Police car, me being a motorhead and all.

Jim727 - I am not entirely sure this is not the same situation, this town is a VERY small town and everyone knows each other, I might be the outsider being taken for a ride.

It seems we may have reached an agreement, they accepted my counter but want the living room set which I was dreading having to move so this works out better for me.

There was no mention about the commission in the second offer.

I have had nothing but bad experiences with realtors these last few years and to call them professional is just not true. They are not.

[nostatic]

does the realtor drive an Audi?