Rent a storage facility and store a few 100,000 gals. of gas?

[TerryBPP]

In theory could a person have bought and stored a few 100k gallons of gas and then sold it back to the gas station at the hire rate? A 30% return in a year is a pretty good turn around.

Lets say for arguments sake you had a spare 100,000 SF storage facility or boat. Does OPEC have restrictions on how much you can store? I bet they do.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

OPEC has no jurisdiction here - they're just a consortium of oil-producing countries. So they wouldn't be the ones to worry about, it'd be your state and local fire officials, building officials and environmental regulatory agencies. No way in hell you could do it without a TON of paperwork and a lot of $$$ on permits.

Also, cracked/refined fuel in the form of gasoline only stays good for so long. . .

[Rot 911]

Jeff hit the nail on the head. Refined fuel has a short lifespan.

[Jims5543]

After Katrina gas was hard to come by in Florida and then we had hurricane Wilma here.

Gas lines were everywhere here in Florida and I was not about to have one of my crews sit in a line for hours to refuel, our trucks were full but we would need gas soon. I purchased three 55 gallon drums of 100 octane from VP Racing Fuel in Ft. Lauderdale and it was delivered to my office that was a house at the time. We put all three 55 gallon drums int he garage and used them instead of waiting in line to buy gas. They lasted a long time, I added fuel stabilizer to them.

When Wilma came we were ready and had gas on hand, no waiting in lines.

I found out from a friend / Fire Fighter it was illegal to have that much gas in the garage, I want to say 30 gallons is the limit here.

He went on to tell me about a call he went on where a garage was on fire on a very expensive home, the Ferrari in the garage was on fire along with a 55 gallon of VP Racing fuel the fire was burning so hot they could not get near it to put it out, they had to hide behind trees in order to reduce the radiating heat. Paint on the cinder block outside the house was peeling off along the front of the house away from the fire and things inside the house were melting even though the fire was contained to the garage.

I do not store gas in large quantities anymore.

[JayG]

If you add a few bottles of Stabil you should be ok. =)

[URY914]

Most reatal storage unit places don't allow you to store gas.

[TerryBPP]

I have done a few projects that were very heavy industrial and allowed the storage of flammables and hazardous wastes. As long as the building was sprinkled and not high pile storage you would be fine.

I had heard that you are not allow to have more than 30 gals at your residence.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

A few 100k gallons would most definitely be high-piled storage.

Ever try to go through permitting for an "H" occupancy? I have. It's a nightmare even with sprinklers.

[Z-man]

I would think that while OPEC doesn't have any say in storing gas, the EPA does...

Query: how long can gas stay?
-Z

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

A few 100k gallons would most definitely be high-piled storage.

Ever try to go through permitting for an "H" occupancy? I have. It's a nightmare even with sprinklers.

100,000 gal/ 55 gal (drum) = 1,818 drums
2*pi*r^2 = 2*3.14*4'(drum radius) = 25.1 SF
1,818 drums x 25.1 SF = 45,631 SF


You could store them flat.

If you didnt own the building already the rent would kill you, but of course this is all hypothetical. Figure $4k a month for 50k SF.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yea - I don't know but I imagine they might have some kind of vertical rack storage for those things, but it's obviously a lot more efficient to store it in one big huge tank rather than a bunch of little ones (less chances of leaks too I suppose). Probably why they do it that way, but there might be some kind of storage system for 55-gal drums.

Even so, it creates other design issues - that'd start getting awfully heavy once you started stacking more than a few high. . . Seismic anchorage considerations, etc. = stronger/stiffer structure = more steel = more $$$. . .

Any way you slice it, it'd cost a lot to do. Don't know the specific economics of fuel wholesaling but the common sense way of looking at it is that there's obviously enough profit in it over time (after all the construction & upkeep overhead) where people do it. You'd probably have to talk to someone who owns a few big tanks or a wholesale distribution facility somewhere to learn about the specific economics of it, I have no idea.

Smells like a rather expensive up-front investment though. Not to mention you'd have to site the thing somewhere carefully - the NIMBYs would eat you alive unless you can get it out in the middle of nowhere someplace. . . But it still has to be accessible to retailers (close enough where the shipping costs from your storage place to their stations won't kill ya').

[onewhippedpuppy]

Buy a shut-down gas station. Hey, we're dreaming, right?

[speeder]

ANd if gas prices went down you would look pretty f'ing stupid.

[Sunroof]

Fire Marshall will have you for lunch, especially in Florida!!!

Just a few considerations

. Spill retainment
. DOT appproved containment vessel
. leak detection
. overfill prevention
. SPCC permit
. AST registration
. Compliance with minimum distances from walls and structures
. Fire prevention

and on and on....................................

Bob

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by speeder

ANd if gas prices went down you would look pretty f'ing stupid.

If you go your whole life trying not to look stupid its a wasted life IMO. Roll the dice b!@tches!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

You could do that but in order to do that the previous owner would to have either decommissioned the USTs (closure permit) or had them physically removed. Usually they leave the deadman slabs in place and yank the tanks out, backfill and that's that. I did a lot of work with USTs at my old office - they are a HUGE hassle to get permitted (especially in CA). In FL it might be easier (or not, there's water table issues in FL) or maybe easier to get ASTs instead. There's still a fair amount of cost associated with the tanks, sumps, continuous monitoring equipment, etc.

Anytime you deal with fuel or hazardous materials, it costs money. The stuff I was working on was mostly large-ish (20,000+ gallon) diesel USTs for generator sets. They ain't cheap and the permitting isn't particularly simple.

[Rick Lee]

Can you imagine the public outcry if someone did do this and then was selling it for a profit? The local news stations would demagogue you to death and you'd be a villain for trying to be an entrepreneur, taking risk and turning a profit on a politically unpopular product.

[sammyg2]

Mr. Darwin? Paging Mr. Darwin .......

[cashflyer]

Jim - you get around that stupid law by having a large "auxiliary tank" mounted in a pickup. I have 250 gallons of diesel parked right here at my shop.

In Terry's scenario, he would be legal to rent a few tankers for storing the gas. We used to do it at the air field, rather than having to obtain in-ground tank permits.

[lendaddy]

Or......just buy some futures?