Surfs up. Christopher Hitchens goes waterboarding

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Oh please. That video only succeeds in demonstrating that Hitchings is some fat, soft Aussie pussy who can't stand to have a little water poured over his face. From the looks of him, I'm sure he would consider going a whole day without food "unbearable torture" as well.

Hitchens is British by birth, a US resident, and dont hold me to this, a US citizen. I think a day without cognac might hurt Christopher more.

If your done trying to insult your Coalition of the Willing partners, please carry on in your usual well informed manner Jeffrey.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

At least my Daughter's school still allows dodge ball and winners and losers!

Best,

There's still hope for this great nation!

[Jeff Higgins]

The guy has obviously never lived in a college dorm or frat environment, or played on a football team, or spent very much time at all with other boys. I bet a good old fashioned wedgie would leave him whimpering in a corner for hours.

[stuartj]

That may or may not be true. How do you know that, or are you just making it up because it suits your beliefs. And how does it discredit or discount his opinion on waterboarding? Have you been waterboarded, Jeff?

[Jeff Higgins]

God forbid he ever find himself with underwear on his head. Or maybe he did once, and has still not recovered from the trauma.

[stuartj]

Its fabulous the way the immeadiate position is to discredit the messenger. He's one of yours, Jeff.

Well actually he's not. He's an intellectual contrarian athiest, but he is an ardent advocate of Bushs War on Terror and a neocon posterboy.

But he must loonie leftie liberal with his undies on his head if he thinks, after having it done, the waterboarding torture.

[Jeff Higgins]

I can do nothing to discredit this man, Stuart. His own video accomplishes that task quite well enough.

Now I understand why you are so wont to believe this man. He is another one of your "intellectual athiests" (any oxymoron if ever there was one...). You must stand in line with him to gargle Dawkins' balls or something.

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I can do nothing to discredit this man, Stuart. His own video accomplishes that task quite well enough.

Now I understand why you are so wont to believe this man. He is another one of your "intellectual athiests" (any oxymoron if ever there was one...). You must stand in line with him to gargle Dawkins' balls or something.

How, specifically, did this video discredit him? After all, he was willing to put his bias to an empirical challenge and accept the conclusions. Have you?

[Rick Lee]

Don't forget that Hitchens used to be a far lefty and changed his mind 180 deg. after 9/11 and became a neocon.

[Jim Richards]

neocons are lefties.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Its fabulous the way the immeadiate position is to discredit the messenger. He's one of yours, Jeff.

Well actually he's not. He's an intellectual contrarian athiest, but he is an ardent advocate of Bushs War on Terror and a neocon posterboy.

But he must loonie leftie liberal with his undies on his head if he thinks, after having it done, the waterboarding torture.

Personally, if we could have drawn & quartered a few peace loving muslims & prevented 9/11, I'd have been all for it!

[kstar]

Jeff, have you been waterboarded?

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Don't forget that Hitchens used to be a far lefty and changed his mind 180 deg. after 9/11 and became a neocon.

He's still way out there on the left, except for his position on Iraq, IMO. He didn't totally turn right!

[IROC]

Actually, the article is very good. I think Hitchens expends the right amount of effort in an attempt to show both sides of this story. As for his "performance" during the waterboarding, I don't think anyone (myself included) has the right to make a comment unless they themselves have been through it.

[billwagnon]

Empathy isn't a strong suit among some on this board.

It's just water, for cryin' out loud. Never mind what the international community says. Never mind they have no personal experience with it.

Bloviate away!

[Nathans_Dad]

First I have never been waterboarded and hope never to be waterboarded.

Second, honestly you could simply hold your breath for as long as he lasted.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by IROC

Actually, the article is very good. I think Hitchens expends the right amount of effort in an attempt to show both sides of this story. As for his "performance" during the waterboarding, I don't think anyone (myself included) has the right to make a comment unless they themselves have been through it.

A few points.

There is no waterboard training, you are either being waterboarded or you are not...in SERE you are WB'd, period.

Second, I like Hitchens.

Third, not only have I been WB'ed, I got to watch others get the same treatment...in fact, I saw it before it was done to me. I think that may have heightened the experience A good friend of mine, a squadron mate, and I talked about watching each other get WB'd...both of us thought we did "ok" but may have had room for improvement

I will say again, WB'ing is not torture. SERE was created to help potential POW's cope with the fact that everyone has a breaking point. The days of, "name, rank and serial number" only existed in the movies and created a false impression on how a real POW should act. SERE is meant to dispel notions of blind heroics: the intent is to teach you tools that may help you survive.

WB'ing, along with smoke used in Navy SERE on the east coast in Maine (too cold for water during the winter) is simply the best, non-invasive method of demonstrating the "breaking point".

I felt, after SERE, that I had a much better understanding of the proper conduct should I become a POW. The SERE instructors always stressed that you need to survive the experience intact, mentally and physically.

[masraum]

I watched the video. I can easily see how being WB would really suck a lot. I think that would be panic inducing quickly.

I know it's not really the same, but the Mythbusters did a Chinese water torture test. They tested the hot redhead. When she was just sitting in a chair having water dripped on her, it was never a problem. As soon as she was tied up, it took no time at all to freak her out.

[billwagnon]

Thanks Seahawk, it's refreshing to hear first hand information.

Why didn't you just hold your breath? Were they preparing the SERE comfy chair?

[Mule]

Who cares? The guys were fighting cut off heads, blow up children & hang people on bridges & set them afire. So freakin what! Waterboard 'em all if that saves one American life!