Do we need change?

[island911]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Pure comedy gold.

Anyone who pursues the presidency is a raging egomaniac/power monger. Frankly, no sane person would go through the process. To me that is the saddest aspect of politics today.

I struck a nerve, eh? While I tend to agree with your sentiments about needing to be a bit crazy to pursue the office, I can also sort out differences. Obama is out feeding his rock-star ego. McCain is out campaigning to be a manager. Not some “we will change it all” BS coming from a neophyte social worker. Obama wants to play the part of Robinhood, and have big stories told about his 'fairness." McCain wants to keep the ship sailing well. Small course corrections... Obama (and his followers) want to rock the boat, just for spite.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

whoa, wait a second, when did you guys switch .... to "Obama is/will be easily controlled" talking point?

I never said he would be easily controlled. I was saying that people like Pelosi invite him, as THEY SEE Obama as relatively easily controlled Lib. . . they see their vast political experience over his. <--- I think that is pretty obvious.

[MichiganMat]

Originally Posted by island911

I struck a nerve, eh? While I tend to agree with your sentiments about needing to be a bit crazy to pursue the office, I can also sort out differences. Obama is out feeding his rock-star ego. McCain is out campaigning to be a manager. Not some “we will change it all” BS coming from a neophyte social worker. Obama wants to play the part of Robinhood, and have big stories told about his 'fairness." McCain wants to keep the ship sailing well. Small course corrections... Obama (and his followers) want to rock the boat, just for spite.

Something tells me you're going to be damned miserable over the next 4 years, damned miserable.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by MichiganMat

For 12 years he was a successful law professor at the University of Chicago, which no doubt in Mule-world makes him even less qualified to lead.

If only he had run a few major corporations into the ground (Bush, Fiorina, etc), maybe then we could respect him.

You are so right! Can you list a few great leaders / college professors for me?

[MichiganMat]

Originally Posted by Mule

You are so right! Can you list a few great leaders / college professors for me?

Thats kind of a red-herring, though I do appreciate the chance to learn about our past presidents. The best I could do is this:

Twenty-six Presidents were lawyers before becoming president.

Teaching law may not be the same as practicing law, but that didn't earn John Edwards any respect either so I guess its a mute point.

I was just pointing out the bias in your statement quoting his qualifications as "... community organization & teleprompter reading". Wayne was claiming he was more qualified than Obama the other day too, strange. But you're right, teaching law at the U of Chicago for 12 years isn't as sexy as running a company into the ground or riding the family coat-tails into wealth and fame, but its worthy of respect in my book.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by MichiganMat

Thats kind of a red-herring, though I do appreciate the chance to learn about our past presidents. The best I could do is this:

Twenty-six Presidents were lawyers before becoming president.

Teaching law may not be the same as practicing law, but that didn't earn John Edwards any respect either so I guess its a mute point.

I was just pointing out the bias in your statement quoting his qualifications as "... community organization & teleprompter reading". Wayne was claiming he was more qualified than Obama the other day too, strange. But you're right, teaching law at the U of Chicago for 12 years isn't as sexy as running a company into the ground or riding the family coat-tails into wealth and fame, but its worthy of respect in my book.

Sex has nothing to do with it. It's about leadership. College professors are commonly dolts with knowledge in one subject. Your point wasn't moot. It was a loser. The pimp hand flies again.

[krichard]

[KaptKaos]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

there are 2 kinds of voters in this country. ones who look at the last 8 years and like what they see. they are for:

corporate socialism at the expense of the middle class

52% of Americans owned stock in 2005, up from 19% in 1983. Move people into IRAs, and 401Ks and support the companies that beef up those retirement benefits. That's a better plan than the pyramid scheme that is Social Security.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

weaker allied relationships around the world

The world changes. Expect the EU to be doing their own thing soon enough. NATOs time has passed.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

over-stretched military

Was over-stretched under Clinton and Clinton drastically reduced the size of the military. Which is worse? As long as most Americans believe that we have a need to protect our interests abroad, they will be thin. Get used to it. PS. we're still in Kosovo too you know.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

borrowing beyond our means to keep our economy afloat, our children and their children will pay it back, no worries

They all do it and no one likes it. Don't just blame Bush for this. There has been a Dem congress for a while now. I don't see frugality running rampant in DC.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

the weakest economy seen since the Great Depression

Interest rates under Carter were as high as 21.5%. Inflation as over 10%/yr. Gas prices were higher than they are now adjusted for inflation. Growth was less than 1%. They created a word just for him; Stagflation.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

continued dependence on non-renewable energy sources

This is a great one. The democrats and environmental lobby have blocked all new nuclear power plants in this country. It's been over 35 years since the last plant broke ground. Wind and sun won't do it. How do you propose to keep 300 million people with a standard of living that they like without carbon or nuclear fuel?

So what if oil is non-renewable (not that I think it is but), so we run out. Then what? Does the sky fall then?

AFAIK, the Earth as a decent example of a closed system. Carbon is carbon, it just may take different forms.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

and those that want more for America.

More what? Be specific?

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Mule

College professors are commonly dolts with knowledge in one subject. .

Perhaps only at your college?

[krichard]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Perhaps only at your college?

You're giving Mule waaaaaaaay too much credit. Do you actually think he went to college?

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Perhaps only at your college?

Perhaps at Harvard where they taught Obama the razor sharp reasoning that enabled him to figure out that that inflating tires would solve the energy crisis. Perhaps at yours where they taught you Che was cool?

[island911]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Perhaps only at your college?

Originally Posted by krichard

You're giving Mule waaaaaaaay too much credit. Do you actually think he went to college?

Clearly an ad hominem couple, like you two, has advanced degrees in argumentation. You 2 really know how to throw up an effective counter argument.

Barry O' is not where he is because of his single experience as a law prof. If you think that he is, please explain. BHO is not on stage now for anything other than being a well spoken, mixed-race malcontent. He spews general displeasure with "bad" and wants to play on emotions of simpletons who will bite on the worm that they have been wronged.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by island911

Clearly an ad hominem couple, like you two, has advanced degrees in argumentation. You 2 really know how to throw up an effective counter argument.

Barry O' is not where he is because of his single experience as a law prof. If you think that he is, please explain. BHO is not on stage now for anything other than being a well spoken, mixed-race malcontent. He spews general displeasure with "bad" and wants to play on emotions of simpletons who will bite on the worm that they have been wronged.

Obama is where he is because he is not stupid, the public is tired of retarded candidates and senile candidates, they want somebody that can think. He is leading in the polls.
He is well spoken because he is smart. Your side is funny, attacking his strong suit.
It only points out how incoherent McCain is.
" he is too smart, uses big words, uppity, college boy."

A lot of people are mixed race, and the rest don't seem to care. Are you confusing mixed race with mixed color?

About 70% of the population is malcontent. The other 30% is incontinent.
Should be a cakewalk for Obama.
90 days for McCain is a lifetime. He should be changing his depends about then.

Isn't he supposed to pick his VP soon? What's a matter, No takers?

[island911]

Smart is a matter of perspective.

[dipso]

How true. This is how Mc.Cain is,,,, "perspected".

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by nostatic

He's the next Castro (see above)

Nostatic: Please don't ignore what I said and create your own threat to defend. I clearly tried to point out (and repeated) that the point is NOT that O is the next Castro but simply that we cannot blindly follow after "change" but we must ask if the solution is better or worse than the problem. Are you capable of understanding what I say here? Lets tone down the rhetoric and get back to the basics. I propose that voting involves the heart. What hills are worth dying for? Economy? Abortion? Ending the war? Legalizing homosexual/lesbian marriage? Lower gas prices? Once you decide which issue has the greatest importance, find the candidate that will fulfill that goal. Obviously, there is no perfect choice. I refuse to vote for Anyone-but-a-Republican or Change-even-if -the-changes-make-things-worse. Frankly, I ain't with either candidate but I cannot stand behind the things one of them is in favor of.

[nostatic]

you submitted the article "without comment." It was pretty clear to some of us what the original author's point was.

I never said we should blindly follow "change," but rather that change is going to happen. So the only question is the direction and implementation, and whether you steer or let the boat drift.

That rhetoric is pretty toned down (as was my other post on the thread). Maybe I should make jokes about Kennedy's alcohol problems instead...

[Mule]

[nostatic]

speaking of rhetoric, it is good to have some things in life you can count on

[dipso]

I truly don't understand how people, mostly on the right, can't find out for themselves what this "change" is that scares them so much.
It could be a simple "daddy figure" thing that won't let them find out things on their own.

I just typed in "Obama proposed changes" and this was one the many answers.
What is so hard about that?

Issues Facing Our Nation
Most Americans realize the problems facing our nation and the world today. With this realization comes despair. But out of despair, we have hope....and that hope is change.

What are the answers to the issues we face today?

Immigration:

This is the greatest nation on earth, and affords its citizen an unblocked path to greatness, should they so choose. But, our borders are flooded with illegal aliens from almost all nations on this earth, with by the far the greatest number flooding over from Mexico. The Pew Hispanic Center used Census Bureau data to estimate that the United States had 11.1 million illegal immigrants in March 2005. The center used monthly population estimates to project a current total of 11.5 million to 12 million. Some say that in reality, this true number of illegals is double.

The answer? You hear "We need comprehensive immigration reform". We already have this...it's called the law. It is illegal to enter this country without the proper documentation. If you're here illegally, you MUST be deported. We have proper channels to become a citizen in this country. What we really need to offset the costs of housing, feeding, teaching, and healing illegals, mostly from Mexico, is for Vicente Fox to send us 1 barrel of oil for every illegal in this country. That would mean 12 to 20 million barrels a month to offset the costs we incur on our great nation.

Fuel Prices
Why do I pay $4+ dollars for a gallon of gas?
It's no mystery why we pay so much for gas at the pump. Along with everything else in this great country, we import oil instead of producing some of it domestically. We don't control the supply, so we don't control the prices. We need to drill domestically. We can do this in an environmentally sound manner. Our methods of oil discovery and extraction are more advanced today than they were in the last several decades. Did you know you pay almost 60 cents in taxes for every gallon of gas? I suggest we have a stay on taxes at the pump. This would be a real stimulus package.


National Health Care
Is a national health care plan the answer? Absolutely not! If you've had the unfortunate circumstance of visiting your local branch of the Department of Motor Vehicles you'll understand why our government needs to stay as far away from our health as possible. Look at other countries that have national health coverage. You'll find enormous waiting periods to get treated, with most of their citizens traveling to our great nation to get the health coverage they need. We must support torte reform. Without frivolous lawsuit, malpractice insurance rates will drop, and health care costs will follow. Without excessive illegals sapping our health care system, our hospitals will stay in business, and continue to provide the best health care in the world.


Education is key in understanding the issues we all face. Without a true understanding of the complexities of the issues, one cannot make informed decisions.

This stuff sounds pretty good to me, And I'll bet to a lot of you righties too.