Another richly deserved TX execution.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by 911teo

Are any of you guys Christians? Please do not treat the question as a challenge but as a genuine question. I'd like to understand and clear some doubts that I have.

I understand the bible says "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", but I thought that Jesus said that God should be the only one to judge, and that we'll face the ultimate judgement when we die.

Don't you think that by killing a man you are robbing them of the chance of finding Jesus and God?
I am not extremely religious myself and I am not interested in the view of non religious people.

I thought TX was a very Christian state and I struggle to understand how people come to terms with that.

I though Jesus predicated forgiveness and that God's ways are unknown to us.

Maybe I am wrong on what Jesus said and there is no contradiction vs the bible stance.

I couldn't care less what the Bible says wrt to criminal law. Ditto for the Koran. The Bible had no problem with slavery, but we got rid of that a while ago. Religious doctrine should have no place in deciding criminals' punishments.

TX is a state that has very overwhelming support for capital punishment. I think it's well into the 80% range. It's the law there and, AFAIK, the governor cannot even commute a death sentence unless recommended by the state pardon board. Bottom line is that TX means business wrt capital murder. Like Jeff Higgins suggested, states should sell raffle or lotto tickets for folks to assist with executions. I know I'd buy a few.

[911teo]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I couldn't care less what the Bible says wrt to criminal law. Ditto for the Koran. The Bible had no problem with slavery, but we got rid of that a while ago. Religious doctrine should have no place in deciding criminals' punishments.

TX is a state that has very overwhelming support for capital punishment. I think it's well into the 80% range. It's the law there and, AFAIK, the governor cannot even commute a death sentence unless recommended by the state pardon board. Bottom line is that TX means business wrt capital murder. Like Jeff Higgins suggested, states should sell raffle or lotto tickets for folks to assist with executions. I know I'd buy a few.

That's fine by me. Mine is not a post against the death penalty. It's a state law. TX means business. Be aware. And you can think whatever you want.

I was just wondering how religious people justify that. That's all. Clearly you dont give a rat's ass about religion or Christianity. Which is fine.

Maybe all the church going is just a facade...

I am myself pretty liberal (from liberalism, not democrat!) and you guys can decide whatever you want to do as long as it makes you happy.

[VincentVega]

Do you really think the scumbag criminal thought about the feelings of his victims? Please. I dont think we should torture the convict, keep it simple and quick.

[Hads930]

These guys sit in prison for YEARS! They will have plenty of free time to find whichever God they choose during the appeals process leading up to the actual punishment phase. Have you ever heard interviews with these guys behind bars? By the way the guys talk you would think Jesus is in the joint as well. I tell my wife if I ever really want to seek out Jesus and true faith I would go to the Texas prison systems.

Yes I am a Christian, the good Lord can decide to forgive these pieces of trash once the Great State of Texas turns them over to him, which for Mr. Chi it was 6:25 yesterday afternoon. His victim, Armand Paliotta, a person Mr. Chi KNEW and worked for, was not afforded the luxury of making his peace with his God, his children and the rest of his family before he was gunned down trying to make a living.

The defendant also shot another person during the same crime and was looking for the third person in the store, but he was not going to be a danger to society right?

[911teo]

No. He's a scumbag criminal. I never said I have any simpathy for him.

But if you are a religious person, believe in God, believe in Jesus as the son of God and God himself and all that come with it how do you justify killing a man, basically preventing God from working His magic to save his soul.

I am asking because I had a wonderful conversation with a friend and we could not figure it out...

[Hads930]

He said "God forgive them, receive my spirit," as they we administering the drugs, sounds like God got to him, you need not worry about his soul.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

I understand that, but most are not like you. What are your thoughts on those that cannot deal with it so cavalierly? Taking a life (any life) is a serious shock to most people and changes them forever. Why give a creep that power?

Sigh, Why would you feel guilty for taking the life of one who is evil and given the chance, will kill again?
I wouldn't.

[Rikao4]

Len, hold my beer, watch this..
see no guilt for you,
now give me my beer

Rika

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by 911teo

No. He's a scumbag criminal. I never said I have any simpathy for him.

But if you are a religious person, believe in God, believe in Jesus as the son of God and God himself and all that come with it how do you justify killing a man, basically preventing God from working His magic to save his soul.

I am asking because I had a wonderful conversation with a friend and we could not figure it out...

You speak of Christianity, but are only referencing a very small part of it.

The old testament is full of capitol punishment.
Commit murder and you get stoned to death according to God in the old testament. So do allot of other things.

[Rikao4]

Teo, not picking on you ,
but couldn't one push the button..
then ..forgive me Father I have sinned..and be forgiven.

Rika

[Hugh R]

His "Rights" as an illegal alien from Honduras/Mexico, who committed murder. That's rich.

[rammstein]

Even if capital punishment meant death by slow,painful torture it would not act as a deterrent IMO.

I simply see the death penalty as a way to save the money on lifetime incarceration of the perp. I don't care which is worse for him, but rather what is best for society. Best for society is to end it with a $1 bullet rather than $350,000 of lifetiem incarceration expenses.

Furthermore, I think we should be harvesting the organs. Let SOMETHING good come out of it.

Would I have trouble being the one to do it?
Yes. Its messed up killing a person.

Would I do it if nobody else in the room would?
Yes. I would shoot them and get their heart and kidneys to use to save a good person's life. Or, rather, have a surgeon do that part.

[rammstein]

Originally Posted by Chris Martin

Do you really think the scumbag criminal thought about the feelings of his victims? Please. I dont think we should torture the convict, keep it simple and quick.

Agreed- enjoying torture would be making you a little to similar to the guy you are killing. It should just be gunshot, gunshot, harvest organs, throw body in trash. Done.

[9dreizig]

Hey I've got a better idea,, how about selling raffle tickets? The winning 6 get loaded guns and get to be in the firing squad !!! It could raise a good amount for the victims families ( and be a good time for those who are inclined to do it)..

[911teo]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

Teo, not picking on you ,
but couldn't one push the button..
then ..forgive me Father I have sinned..and be forgiven.

Rika

I don't know. Could they? If they repent wouldnt God take them? I am not an expert, but that is what I always thought, as long as it is for real and only God knows...

[911teo]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

You speak of Christianity, but are only referencing a very small part of it.

The old testament is full of capitol punishment.
Commit murder and you get stoned to death according to God in the old testament. So do allot of other things.

Fine. But why do you pick and choose? Shouldn't you follow all that is said?

Leaving the new testament out seems a little convenient.

Or are you saying that the new and old testament contradict each other?

Again I would like for this to be an open debate. I am not trying to be a smart ass here

[red-beard]

God's forgiveness is infinite. We are not god. We have laws with penalties for not following them. Some are lenient, some are harsh.

It is not called the "Death Deterrent". It is called the "Death Penalty". It is a fitting punishment for certain criminal acts. In this state (Texas), 1st degree murder is a Capital crime. Conviction by a jury of your peers, with their recommendation, can lead to a verdict of death.

It is simply. Do not commit the crime, you will not be put to death. We are not talking about drug trafficking, or theft, or civil disobedience. This person murdered another, pre-meditated. They knew what they were doing, and planned it. Someone who does this is generally put to death in this state. No ifs, ands or buts.

He was put to death in fairly short order, 7 years from the time of the crime. California waits almost 30 years to put one to death.

As Ron White says: "Don't kill anyone in Texas. You kill some here, we'll kill you right back. Other states are abolishing the Death Penalty. We're putting in an express lane."

[tc-sacto]

Originally Posted by 911teo

Are any of you guys Christians? Please do not treat the question as a challenge but as a genuine question. I'd like to understand and clear some doubts that I have.

I understand the bible says "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", but I thought that Jesus said that God should be the only one to judge, and that we'll face the ultimate judgement when we die.

Don't you think that by killing a man you are robbing them of the chance of finding Jesus and God?
I am not extremely religious myself and I am not interested in the view of non religious people.

I thought TX was a very Christian state and I struggle to understand how people come to terms with that.

I though Jesus predicated forgiveness and that God's ways are unknown to us.

Maybe I am wrong on what Jesus said and there is no contradiction vs the bible stance.

The bible is ambiguos on the subject:
Matthew 5:17-19. He is recorded as saying that the Mosaic Law was to continue unchanged:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (JKV)

Genesis 4:11-15.
"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;...a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." (KJV)

John 8:3-11, Jesus interrupted the scheduled execution of an adulteress. She was to be stoned to death. He told her executioners: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Sigh, Why would you feel guilty for taking the life of one who is evil and given the chance, will kill again?
I wouldn't.

I'm not talking about me, hell I'm an emotional stone. I'm talking about my wife, my mother, others that are of innocent "soul"(not meant to have religious overtones). They would do right by the law and it would potentially haunt them forever. Your or my telling them not to feel guilty is of little consequence, yes?

I am not concerned in the slightest about the guilty criminal.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by tc-sacto

John 8:3-11, Jesus interrupted the scheduled execution of an adulteress. She was to be stoned to death. He told her executioners: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

Good thing our criminal code is not based on this, or else that scumbag would still be alive. I hope he burns in hell. May God piss on his soul.