Tatoos and teens...forgiveness vs. permission...as stepdad should I even get a vote?

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Sure 'nuff! And they have the ability to look their mom squarely in the eye and lie their butts off!

And when you know they're lying and you try to point it out to mom, mom will side with them no matter how convincing you assessment is. And when the lie is revealed later to mom by a third party, mom will be even angrier at YOU, not the child.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Thanks for the comments and the opportunity for me to vent. A couple of points:

1. Nowhere have I said that tats were low rent...well professional tats that is. I suppose its some consolation that it was professionally done and not a "prison" or homemade tat. In fact I have seen some that are works of art...I'll have to admit tho that prosyltizing religious sentiments on you azz is not what I'd consider art.

2. I have been their primary male parent role model for the past 5 or so years. Tho they have a relationship with their dad it is long distance with phone calls/emails 2-3 times per month and once or twice a year to visit him and their heiress stepmom in Santa Barbara area. Prior to that he was a recovering crack addict.

3. I'm expected to be there for them when things go awry and go to their beauty pagents and sporting events and cook breakfast on Saturday morning and keep their cars in good repair and help them with school and discuss issuess maturely and honestly. I was their when they felt abandoned when dad suddenly moved out of their life chasing the golden goose.

4. As I aluded to earlier I'm rather pizzed off because wife concealed it from me and then never bothered to keep me in the loop about it afterwards. Just as mom is protective of her brood, I have a tendency to be protective of my wife. And I see them walking all over her....she has clear issues with disciplining them that go back to a lot of guilt about their younger years. I'll leave it at that. But let me say I've never raised my voice or struck them nor have I been the final person to decide punishment...I defer to mom. But they are keenly aware when I am angry or disappointed in them. Of late they are pushing the boundaries and getting away with more and more...which disturbs me.

art is subjective

if the mom didnt care, why do you? maybe she didnt keep you in the loop because she doesnt think tattoos are a big deal and didnt want to turn it into a big deal

i cant imagine how a tattoo on a person's ass is a problem. if it was on her neck, or face...i might be more concerned that i was not give an opportunity to discuss the pros/cons of the placement of the tattoo

but on one's buttox...? so what

[tabs]

For $200 an hour I will act as your Thearpist....

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by srandallf

and you guys that think a person with a "tat" cant "make it" in this life...or be "upper crust" or whatever that crap is, you are very seriously out of touch with reality in the year 2008

wow

I would never say that a person with a tat can't make it in life, but I know for a fact that my employer would not hire someone covered in tats over a similarly qualified "clean cut" type of individual and I know of several other business owners who have similar views. Sure there are also employers who could care less, but the "reality" is that even now in 2008 it can still limit one's chances with some employers.

I am guessing that you are banking that reality in 2028 will be better. While it might fly in some circles and parts of the country, having visible tats may be held against you depending on where and what field you intend to pursue....that is reality whether you like it or not. Why would a parent knowingly want to allow their kid to do this prior to them getting established in life as adults is beyond me.

On second thought, I guess I really don't give a crap about what OTHER peoples kids do to themselves as it will in certain situations give my kids a better shot at getting decent professional jobs with SOME potential employers.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Dueller

And when you know they're lying and you try to point it out to mom, mom will side with them no matter how convincing you assessment is. And when the lie is revealed later to mom by a third party, mom will be even angrier at YOU, not the child.

Yup...like I said, I adopted the kid. Legally, I AM her dad. But that went out the window in cases like the above. But then, wanna bet that sperm donor Dads have experienced the same problem?

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

I would never say that a person with a tat can't make it in life, but I know for a fact that my employer would not hire someone covered in tats over a similarly qualified "clean cut" type of individual and I know of several other business owners who have similar views. Sure there are also employers who could care less, but the "reality" is that even now in 2008 it can still limit one's chances with some employers.

I am guessing that you are banking that reality in 2028 will be better. While it might fly in some circles and parts of the country, having visible tats may be held against you depending on where and what field you intend to pursue....that is reality whether you like it or not. Why would a parent knowingly want to allow their kid to do this prior to them getting established in life as adults is beyond me.

On second thought, I guess I really don't give a crap about what OTHER peoples kids do to themselves as it will in certain situations give my kids a better shot at getting decent professional jobs with SOME potential employers.

i unfortunately wear a suit (dress suit, not bathing suit) to work every day.

how in the world would any of the tons of people i interact with every week know if im covered in tattoos?

neck and face...are out of the question in my career

i know people that make these judgmental blanket statements...about people with tattoos being somewhat less of a person, less smart, less "clean"

ive worked for them. ive seen such judgments cast upon co-workers

it happens

the world is filled with many narrow minded people. i despise them

but i do think its getting better.....kids these days dont really view piercings and tattoos the same as they did 30 years ago. its so common these days that the stigma has been diluted somewhat

when i was in college, i had a sociology teacher who said that when all the people who are now over 50 (this was 18 years ago) are dead, the world will be a much more accepting place. hey, not my words but i dont disagree one iota

[Dueller]

OK, scoTT...let me throw this at you. Suppose dtr goes to mom at 17 and says I want a tattoo. Mom discusses it with her without going nuts and says "First its illegal in this state. Second, I don't think it is a decison you need to make right now. You'll be 18 in 7 months and if you really want a tatoo then you will have had time to decide what you want, you can have one whethern I approve or not. But not right now."

The following day, dtr goes to a tattoo parlor lies about her age, gets tat and comes home to show mom.

To me that is a bigger issue than the tat itself.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Dueller

OK, scoTT...let me throw this at you. Suppose dtr goes to mom at 17 and says I want a tattoo. Mom discusses it with her without going nuts and says "First its illegal in this state. Second, I don't think it is a decison you need to make right now. You'll be 18 in 7 months and if you really want a tatoo then you will have had time to decide what you want, you can have one. But not right now."

The following day, dtr goes to a tattoo parlor lies about her age, gets tat and comes home to show mom.

To me that is a bigger issue than the tat itself.

yes. thats a bigger issue. without knowing the kid, the mom, the history - i have no idea just what exactly the issue is...but it would concern me very much

as a kid, (and i was rebellious kid), i would never disrespect my parents so blatantly

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by srandallf

yes. thats a bigger issue. without knowing the kid, the mom, the history - i have no idea just what exactly the issue is...but it would concern me very much

as a kid, (and i was rebellious kid), i would never disrespect my parents so blatantly

And here's the kicker....she would never want her father or grandmother to know. And had they forbid it she would probably have waited. But she defies her mother blatantly and then comes home to show her.

[Tim Hancock]

Scott, not looking to pick a fight, but you admit that the reality is that it can still hurt ones chances in some situations.

I guess I would be judged "old school" in your eyes, but I will NEVER understand how some of today's younger crowd thinks a bunch of metal stuck in their nose, eye brows etc looks attractive.....same goes for the folks with tats covering a good percentage of their body.

To me it is simply a way of trying to fit in or making some kind of "in your face" type statement. Oh well, at least I was fortunate enough to make it through my stepdaughter's teen years without multiple piercings or tats. The oldest even dresses in very nice clothes now.....never saw that one coming.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Dueller

And here's the kicker....she would never want her father or grandmother to know. And had they forbid it she would probably have waited. But she defies her mother blatantly and then comes home to show her.

well that is a kicker.

my gut tells me she is a disrespectful and spoiled child with a chip on her shoulder who is trying to tell her mother to go screw for some reason(s)

however, try looking at this from another perspective

maybe she is so "tight" with her mom that thought she could do this and still have her mom's respect because her mom would "understand" and that it could be their little secret from dad and granny...a backwards way of bonding???

when i was 13, i wanted an earing. my dad forbid it. my mom took me to the mall and we went to the kiosk together and she got me the earing. i got home and me and mom caught hell for it. i always thought my mom was so effing cool because of that.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

Scott, not looking to pick a fight, but you admit that the reality is that it can still hurt ones chances in some situations.

I guess I would be judged "old school" in your eyes, but I will NEVER understand how some of today's younger crowd thinks a bunch of metal stuck in their nose, eye brows etc looks attractive.....same goes for the folks with tats covering a good percentage of their body.

To me it is simply a way of trying to fit in or making some kind of "in your face" type statement. Oh well, at least I was fortunate enough to make it through my stepdaughter's teen years without multiple piercings or tats. The oldest even dresses in very nice clothes now.....never saw that one coming.

ok. yes i admit it. it happens. but, when a person says that tattoos represent a less desirable employee.... the person saying it, is the person that actually chooses to discriminate

i truly do not think it is right to judge a person's ability, ethics, talents etc... by whether or not they have a pretty or not so pretty picture on their skin

obviously there are extremes. for example, if i was interviewing candidates for a position which involved client contact and a candidate had "FTW" tattooed on their forehead, I would have to decline the job offer even if they told me they got the tattoo 30 years ago when they were drunk and on spring break

but there are many instances where tattoo haters are being, well... idiots

for example, a friend worked as a receptionist in a professional office. she was middle-class, in her 50's, married and a good person. she had decided because she loves animals, to have a very small and tastefully done animal tattooed on her forearm. she was in her 50's when she chose to do this

one day the boss sees it and says "when did you get that crap, if i knew you had that thing, i never would have hired you". the woman cried and ended up quitting.

i was shocked. as a professional with a doctorate degree under my belt, i felt like swatting the puritan bastard

yea, so there you go...it happens.

i still believe however, that people are becoming much more tolerant about such things like tattoos, face piercings, navel piercings.....ummm...dare i say it.. pubic hair removal..... it wasnt that long ago, but when i was a teenager, i saw a lot less tattoos on my fellow teens and almost never ever met a girl that knew what a bikini wax actually meant. go ask your teenager daughters if they know what those are now....i bet they do, and i bet they get them without you knowing about it...and im talking about the Brazilian kind :-)

the times are a changin

[VINMAN]

Being a step-dad of five kids, three from my first wife and two from my second, I understand Duellers dilema. I think the amount of say you have depends on a few factors. One is how long and from how young, you have raised them.
My stepkids from my first wife, I raised from when they where small children. 4, 6 and 8. Thier father had no involvement whatsoever. They pretty much have always considered my thier dad. They are now in thier mid to late 20s. I always had a say in how they where raised, although there was many times when my opinion or view was ignored or even admonished. The girl, which was the middle one, was probably the one who was the most rebellious. She had the worst attitude. but still turned out ok. Even after my wife passed away, they still have the same respect they have always had.
My current stepkids are 23 and 26. step-son and daughter. Been around them for 6 yrs. Pretty much no reason for involvment there. But they do ask for my advice at times and have always been nothing but respectful and have become very close friends with them.

[Mr.Puff]

Originally Posted by azasadny

I still remember someone here (I think it was Moses) who referred to tattoos as "BLASE" as in "badge of low self esteem" and I believe that's what they are, especially on teens...

Must depend on the Tat. People don't know I have any... keep 'em in the farmer tan area for business purposes.

[Gogar]

At least she's in good company now.

[steveo123456]

As a 16 year veteran of a blended family (2 boys, one mine, one hers) I can say that you are in an incredibly difficult position and there are no easy answers. Bottom line: blood is thicker than water and she will always favor her daughter and give her much more leeway than she deserves. Just as I and my significant other have done with our respective kids through many issues. Good luck. There's a reason that the divorce rate for blended families is so high. Choose your fights carefully.

[Sapporo Guy]

sounds like the tat isn't the real issue.

Maybe, you should have been in on the design and what not part of the tat. You could have participated but yet still maintained your position that the "long term" is something that should be thought about beyond the idea of what is good "short term".

Have you talked with the wife about the idea that you were kept out of the loop?
I would have been more angry about that than the actual tattoo.

I hope you can get back into the "communication loop"!

[Buckterrier]

I'm with you Dueller. She was forbidden to get ink, she gets ink, she tells Mommy, Mommy doesn't do anything. You aren't told. I didn't read all posts but someone did say something to the effect she is spoiled and is getting back at her Mommy. Sure does sound like she's spoiled and knows there would be no punishment. You are in a no win situation, (I remember your other post about the twins drinking). At this point it's been let known to you that your opinion doesn't matter when it comes to these girls. My advice, (for what it's worth not having any children, step or other wise), is to be as coy as you can be to them. Then the next time something like this arises and you show your cavilar additude your wife will wonder, ask what's going on and probably even get mad at you. Then you come out with both barrels if you chose to. Site, (you are a lawyer ), all the instances where your caring amounted to a hill of beans. Unfortunantly it won't matter. You'll still be a dickweed for that additude also. Good luck!! (and the next time it happens... just climb in your Porsche and take a long ride).
OH!! And didn't you just buy the family a beautiful new home because the wife wanted more space or something???????? GEEZZZZ

[Rikao4]

only God..right,
well she's worried about 'Dad & Grandma ' judging her.
seems 'their 'opinion count.

Rika

[The Gaijin]

The "judging" thing I just don't get.

15 - 25 years ago it was not a defined thing among young people as I remember..

A generational thing I imagine.

As for 17 year olds - not very long ago that would have been considered basically an adult. Or very close. 2008 Modern America has expectations, educational issues and economic forces that keep this from being realistic. But you have got to imagine they are pretty much wired to be grown up..