Religious HS - what say yee?

[nostatic]

No, this isn't for my son. That wouldn't work. But rather a good friend of mine (divorced mom) has three kids, and the oldest starts HS this fall. He was going to go to the local public HS (Santa Monica HS), but he's having a bit of a tough time, surly, acting out (surprise), and with over 3500 students she's worried that he'll get lost in the shuffle and things will get worse. She's strapped for cash, but decided to enroll him in the local Catholic HS. He's pretty shocked, and she isn't really religious. But she thinks he needs more discipline and structure. She is worried that he'll be warped by the religious angle on things, but I'm not so sure.

So for those that went to a religious HS, did it tweak you or was it the best thing all things considered?

[JavaBrewer]

I went to a Catholic H.S. graduating in '81. If the format has not changed she can expect:

1. At least one religion class in the daily lineup every year/semester
2. Required 1x month meeting with the school's religious advisor. Expect typical questions like "How often do you read the bible", "How often do you witness", "When did you last confess", etc... The real standout for me was them trying to get me to "save" my heathen parents who did not do the church/religion thing.
3. Required church attendance (yes on campus) for larger events.

Considering that the neighbor girl graduated from the local public H.S. barely able to read I guess going to the Catholic H.S. was a good call. My parents were very "hands off" and both worked FT. Like your divorced friend there are lots of people putting their "problem" kids in the system in hopes of getting them straightened out. That can be an issue.

I think a public school can be a very good thing as long as the parents stay VERY involved. IMO, if done right a public school is > than the religious one. YMMV.

[sammyg2]

Yeah, we wouldn't want the mind of a troubled teenager getting warped with morals and decency.

I don't have any personal experience with catholic schools but I think lutheran schools are a hundred times better for a child than public schools.

[nostatic]

yeah, I never saw a bad kid come out of religious school - none of them do drugs and they're all little angels

[Nathans_Dad]

At this point in my life I am planning on sending my kids to public schools. We live in an area where the public schools are pretty good so I don't personally see the point in paying extra for private or religious school.

As far as a religious school in general, my impression of them is that they generally have above average academics. Yes, there is a religion class in the mix, but it isn't like they are sending him off to a Madrasa now is it?

Contrary to popular opinion on this board, religion is not the root of all evil. People who twist religion to serve their own purposes might be...

[JavaBrewer]

Except for Thomas. He was the starting running back on the football team and loved doing lines of coke on his desk during 3rd period history. I can go on and on but then I think everyone could. A religious H.S. is not going to correct problems the home front gave up on.

I guess what I neglected to touch on is that yes, going to a school like that can be conflicting, if the parents/home is not onboard with the particular flavor of doctrine.

[legion]

I have about 5 college friends from the Kankakee area.

The public schools there are dismal, and anyone who has the means sends their kids to a private school--but there is only one private school in the area--Bishop McNamara (Catholic--in case you didn't guess).

They are all fine, normal, well-adjusted people.

[widebody911]

I went to a Catholic middle school and high school. We had a mandatory class in religion each quarter, but it wasn't the dogmatic hellfire you'd expect - it was very 'liberal' by catholic standards, and covered a wide range of theological topics. Some classes were taught by clergy, some taught by laypeople. There was no religious pressure whatsoever; none of the meetings that David endured. And fortunately, no mandatory (or voluntary) altar-boy "duties"

[Jim Richards]

Catholic School girls. 'nuff said.

[Seahawk]

I went to a Catholic HS. It was important that I did...I was a complete smart ass and, even though I was in private schools leading up to HS, really needed the discipline that a smaller, more hands on school gives. I honestly have no idea where I would have ended up if not for the Penguins. I had great, very smart parents who realized what a dick I was, that their guidance needed to be combined with a like environment as I went through the school day. They were right.

I am still in touch with Sister Alice Joseph.

My daughter goes to a Catholic HS, one of the best in the DC area. It works for her because she is very academically oriented and sees her school as a better option to attain her goals.

My son will go to the local HS...he is equally academically oriented, but has other interests (music) that the Catholic HS doesn't really offer.

The religious worry is a non-starter...they aren't throwing chicken bones and talking in tongues

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I actually went to private Catholic elementary & high schools too. Probably one of the reasons I'm so vehemently anti-religion today.

I will say that I got a fairly good education at both levels. I suspect, however, that this had a lot more to do with the "private" part than the "Catholic" part. The religious education at the high school level was a lot more open/objective and there was actually a fair amount of tolerance for differing opinions/questions. Completely the opposite of K-8 (where it was beaten into us rote, verbatim and there was absolutely NO tolerance for deviant opinions or questions - the doctrines were presented as absolute fact and questioning them was punished).

Maybe it's different today, or maybe there's a difference in philosophy between K-8 education and 9-12 education because by the time you get to High School maybe they think you're more able to think for yourself or whatever. Dunno. In my own case I was so screwed up by the time I got to H.S. that it took a long time to take advantage of the new ability to expand my beliefs and explore the feasibility of alternatives.

I would suspect that there is a very, very high likelihood that your kid will end up at least partially screwed up in the head as a result of ANY religious education. This is something I've discovered in conversations with lots of other folks who have had similar experiences growing up - not just limited to Catholicism either.

My $0.02 (whatever that's worth) would be to find a good school first where your kid will be challenged and get individualized attention. If it happens to be packaged up with a religious education program, I wouldn't automatically exclude it on that basis, but I'd sure as hell keep an eye on things and talk openly & frankly with them (often) about what they were being "taught". If I thought it crossed the line into brainwashing, I'd yank 'em out immediately and go elsewhere.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by nostatic

yeah, I never saw a bad kid come out of religious school - none of them do drugs and they're all little angels

How petty, Todd. And juvenile.

I am a product of Catholic schools - graduating from an all boys high school in 1981.

Parochial schools are not without their warts - just like any other organization. The ratio of good and bad kids I suspect is not all that different than the public schools. And if there are problems at home - especially the lack of a father for a high school aged boy, no amount of private school is going to fix the problem.

(In the old days, when priests were men and acted like men, some incorrigibles were probably helped - I think it's probably a bit rarer these days.)

My three children are in Catholic schools. Two are in a local girls high school and my son is still in junior high. We see much good and bad, and we do have the ability to expel the very bad, although this is very rare. It has been a great experience for them, but we are also Catholic. In high school, they will get one ethics class per day, with very little emphasis on Catholicism in general. They will one year have a class in the Gospels, although the classes are generally presented historically, so there's something for everyone.

The schools are designed to compliment the child's existing faith, and the children are expected to behave. Luckily, most (but not all) of the parents who write a check every month for tuition do not tolerate misbehavior in their children. The exceptions are usually wealthy - you can connect the dots.

By and large, the children and the families we have been associated with for the last 14 years in Catholic education have been exemplary - with a great number of graduates going on to good schools, volunteerism and the military academies. If I may say so, they are the kind of kids you'd want your to befried, hang out with or marry. They will be good citizens who contribute to what is good about our society. And no, I'm not so naive to think this applies to them all, or doesn't apply to some public school kids, but this family is not taking any chances.

IMHO, of course.

[Jeff Higgins]

We sent both of our boys to a Lutheran boarding school in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Our oldest is now 20, and is enrolled in the ME program at the UW. He has never failed to make the dean's list in any quarter he has attended, and has pretty much paid for his own education through acedemic scholarships.

Our youngest is now 17. We brought him home after only two years there (his brother went all four). He is entering his senior year at the local public HS. One of the most striking things I've ever heard was when we met with his advisor, who observed "he didn't go to public school, did he?" after having him there for only six months. He has one more HS class to finish this fall to graduate; the rest of his time will be spent in the local "running start" program, earning college credits.

Both kids scored in the top 1% nationally in the SAT's. The younger aced his WASL's. I'm not saying this to brag up my kids; I actually see them as pretty average bonehead teenagers. I firmly believe that the school we sent them to made the difference. They have disciplined study habits that just don't seem as well developed in their local friends. The environment in that school demanded that of them, whereas I don't believe public schools are quite as demanding in that area. And no, living at a religious boarding school didn't "warp" them in any way. They are as normal as any kids their age.

The school also communicated with us quite well. They initiated the communication where, in sharp contrast, we initiate it with the local HS. They are constantly amazed at how involved (nosey?) we are in our kid's education. They are clearly not used to it. We are. I'm not sure if all "religious" HS's are the same in that respect; it may be more dependent on the size of the school, or the inclinations of its staff. I have to think that is better than public schools, however.

O.k., now all of that said, here comes the bomb - private religious schools are absolutely not the place to send kids with disciplinary problems. They suck precious time that can be devoted to the kids that do not. Whatever problems the kid has need to be addressed at home, before the kid goes to this school. It is decidedly selfish and unfair to the rest of the kids and their parents to foist one's problems off on the school. They are ill suited to handle them. Your friend needs to look for help elsewhere. While her intentions are good, her approach is horribly missguided.

On top of that, any religious school will demand full "spiritual caretaking" authority over the kid. They will demand the parents' help and involvement in this. Sending a kid who is not religious, who has parents who are not, then worrying about how the religious atmosphere will "warp" him is a recipe for disaster for all involved. He is either there because he and his family share the faith expressed by the school or he belongs somewhere else. No if's, and's, or but's. They are either ready for the full ride or they should not get on the bus. And this is for a relatively "trouble free" kid.

Bottom line is, sending a problem kid to such a school is no answer. Sending a non-religious kid to such a school, with no intention of being one with their faith but rather being afraid of being "warped" by it is wrong. Combine the two, and what makes anyone think they have any right to do this to the school? Talk about a gross missperception of what these schools are all about. Talk about an exceedingly selfish approach to dealing with her problem child. Yup, send 'em off to them "religious folk"; they'll straighten him out. Hopefully not too straight, though...

[tabs]

U want a place where they can straighten up the kid. He needs the disciple of a on the job Dad, barring that a religious school might save that kid some greif going down the road. So I say yes.

Nothing is really going to sway a kid religiouily by the time he is in HS. Kids pick up their religious tendencys form the parents....if the parent is an addicitive peraonality then a kid will be suseptible to addiction to a religious belief.

Do U get the taste of how really mean I am ...

[nostatic]

again, this isn't my son - it is a friend's kid. She is decidedly not Catholic and is just worried about indoctrination. I went to a Catholic university and it was fine. But I knew kids who went to Catholic schools and frankly they were holy terrors. Seems that it is pretty much dependent on the individual school. I'm just trying to get some real-world experiences with the process to relate to her.

Jeff, we are in total agreement. That is why I will not consider a religious school for my son (unless I find a Buddhist one). I don't believe in putting a kid in a community that I'm not part of.

As for Catholic school girls, I can say that I was happy about the repression that they dealt with in HS. When they got to college, they were ready to explore...

As for petty and juvenile comments - I didn't see it that way. Just a sarcastic response to a sarcastic comment. I've seen plenty of immoral and indecent behavior coming out of "religious" people. I frankly don't think that organized religion necessarily equates with morals and decency.

[Tidybuoy]

I went to Catholic grammer school and all boys Catholic high school. At that time you could not just enroll into a Catholic high school - you had to take an entrance exam. For most of my 8th grade class, the nuns threatened me and my classmates that if we didn't behave, we could kiss Catholic hs goodbuy (and probably go to hell too).

Overall, I think Catholic school was good. Definately taught me discipline. I had 6 sisters and 1 brother that also went to Catholic schools. I don't think any of us have been to church in 25 years, but I still feel guilty if I'm not perfect.

[Rick Lee]

How about a military school? Don't a lot of those bill themselves as a way to correct midguided youth?

[Icemaster]

Depends on the school and what they focus on. IF they're truly interested in educating kids, the religious aspect will take a back seat. Some schools want to churn out proper little church attendees or god warriors. Others want to graduate kids who are high achievers, and just happen to be Catholic or religious based.

I went to the latter, it was Jesuit based where a consistent 99% of the students went on to higher education. The remaining 1% typically went on to military service, then higher ed. Everyone graduated. It changed my life, I learned more there in 4 years - education-wise - than I did in my entire lengthy college career. Ironically, it was a Jesuit priest at my HS who helped me put the pieces together and realize I had no business belonging to any organized religion.

YMMV. One thing to keep in mind tho, single sex schools are a plus. A lot less distractions, competition, general stupidity. Puts more of a focus on the studies and the personal development.

[RPKESQ]

There are good schools and bad schools. Some of the religious schools (or public schools) are good some bad. Some kids might just need a little guidence to straighten out, some will need a lot more than that to straighten out.

I went to a Catholic grade school, HS and College. I saw in third grade that the religious views were inconsistant with themselves and science. I never allowed it to affect me since.
But I do regret having to spend so much time in "nonsense" class for all those years. What a waste of time.

Nostatic, My daughter went to Santa Monica HS, hated it and graduated from it when she was 16 years 1 month old. Started college the next semester and never looked back. Each to their own. But Santa Monica HS seemed to try very hard to help any child willing to be help. I still support them in fund raising.

Some kids that need help do not respond to stricter disipline. For example, many military school alumni (and vets) I have met were sad excuses for human beings. Their parents just sent them off to have someone else correct their poor parenting skills. That seems to seldom work.

After thinking about your discription of this kid, he might just need a mentor. Just a thought, why don't you direct your friend to the Big Brother organization, or maybe you could perform that task (no value judgement from me if you do not want to).

[nostatic]

The lack of a male role model is surely a significant part of the problem imho. Thankfully she has a very good guy who's she seeing now, but that doesn't make up for "dad" (who is a piece of work). I do what I can (was going to take him with my son to the range to teach him to shoot), but my cycles are limited as I have my own house to keep in order.

Thanks for the various perspectives. It's kind of how I figured - dependent on the particular school and their attitudes towards academics and religion.