Military Conflict - Russia And Georgia

[jyl]

Sounds like significant fighting. Not merely a few shots being exchanged across the border. Airstrikes and armour moving.

Georgia is not part of NATO, though it has US support. Perhaps Russia uses this oppty to annex this area of Georgia and send a message to other former Soviet republics. What would or could the US or NATO do about it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/world/europe/09georgia.html?ref=world

Mr. Utiashvili, the Georgian official, said Georgians had seen Russian forces, including “hundreds of soldiers and dozens of armored vehicles, including tanks,” move up the military highway into the Caucasus Mountains that ties the separatist enclave to Russia.

By morning, they had passed through a mountain tunnel into the northern portion of the enclave, he said. "They are on Georgian territory now.”

"We don’t know whether they are militias or regular Russian forces," he said. "As they carry heavy equipment, we think they must be regulars. We don’t know. We just know they are coming to attack us."

He said Georgian Su-25 ground attack airplanes had struck the convoy and that the Georgians believed they had caused casualties and destroyed Russian armored vehicles.

But a spokesman for Teimuraz Mamsurov, the president of the semiautonomous Russian republic of North Ossetia, which borders the disputed territory, said the Georgian planes had struck an automobile convoy shipping humanitarian aid from Vladikavkaz to South Ossetia.

He said he had no information about the sighting of Russian tanks.

The Georgian military fired on Russian fighter jets that bombed Georgian territory and strafed Georgian positions at about 11 a.m. Moscow time, Mr. Utiashvili said.

[Mule]

Religion of peace again?

[onewhippedpuppy]

The USSR lives!!!

[m21sniper]

Georgia is a nuclear state, is it not?

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Mule

Religion of peace again?

[Edit - removed my reply - why get into a pissing match.]

[m21sniper]

Georgian army moves to retake South Ossetia

By MUSA SADULAYEV, Associated Press Writer 13 minutes ago

TSKHINVALI, Georgia - Georgian troops launched a major military offensive Friday to regain control over the breakaway province of South Ossetia, prompting a furious response from Russia — which vowed retaliation and sent a column of tanks into the region.
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More than two dozen were reported dead in the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won defacto independence in a war that ended in 1992.

Ten Russian peacekeepers were killed and 30 wounded when their barracks were hit in Georgian shelling, said Russian Ground Forces spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov. Russia has soldiers in South Ossetia as peacekeeping forces but Georgia alleges they back the separatists.

Separatist officials in South Ossetia said 15 civilians had been killed in fighting overnight, and Georgian officials said seven civilians were wounded in bombing raids by Russia.

The main hospital in Tskhinvali, the provincial capital, had ceased functioning and ambulances were unable to reach wounded civilians, said international Red Cross spokeswoman Maia Kardova in Tbilisi, Georgia.

The fighting broke out when much of the world's attention was focused on the start of the Olympic Games and many leaders, including Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Bush, were on their way to Beijing.

Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili, who insists his government's military action was provoked, noted the timing in an interview with CNN.

"Most decision makers have gone for the holidays," he said. "Brilliant moment to attack a small country."

Speaking earlier on Georgian television, Saakashvili accused Russia of sending aircraft to bomb Georgian territory, which Russia denied.

Russia's Defense Ministry said it was sending reinforcements for its peacekeepers, and Russian state television and Georgian officials reported a convoy of tanks had crossed the border. The convoy was expected to reach the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, by evening, Channel One television said.

Georgian State Minister for Reintegration ****r Yakobashvili said government troops were now in full control of the city.

"We are facing Russian aggression," said Georgia's Security Council chief Kakha Lomaya. "They have sent in their troops and weapons and they are bombing our towns."

Putin has warned that the Georgian attack will draw retaliation and the Defense Ministry pledged to protect South Ossetians, most of whom have Russian citizenship.

Georgia, which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. The country has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership — a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region.

An Associated Press reporter saw tanks and other heavy weapons concentrating on the Russian side of the border with South Ossetia. Some villagers were fleeing into Russia.

"I saw them (the Georgians) shelling my village," said Maria, who gave only her first name. She said she and other villagers spent the night in a field and then fled toward the Russian border as the fighting escalated.

Georgia declared a three-hour cease-fire to allow civilians to leave Tskhinvali. Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said troops were observing the cease-fire, which began at 3 p.m. local time (7 a.m. EDT).

Yakobashvili said Georgian forces have shot down two Russian combat planes over Georgian territory. He gave no details. Russia's Defense Ministry denied an earlier Georgia report about one Russian plane downed and had no immediate comment on the latest claim.

Yakobashvili said that one Russian plane had dropped a bomb on the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, but no one was hurt.

More than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers were at the base last month to teach combat skills to Georgian troops. Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain.

The White House on Friday urged Russia and Georgia to peacefully resolve their dispute over South Ossetia.

"We urge restraint on all sides — that violence would be curtailed and that direct dialogue could ensue in order to help resolve their differences," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters.

NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said he was seriously concerned about the fighting and that the alliance is closely following the situation.

South Ossetia officials said Georgia attacked with aircraft, armor and heavy artillery. Georgian troops fired missiles at Tskhinvali, an official said, and many buildings were on fire.

Georgia's president said Russian aircraft bombed several Georgian villages and other civilian facilities.

"A full-scale aggression has been launched against Georgia," Saakashvili said in a televised statement. He also announced a full military mobilization with reservists being called into action.

Seven civilians were wounded when three Russian Su-24 jet bombers flew into Georgia and bombed the town of Gori and the villages of Kareli and Variani, Deputy Interior Minister Eka Sguladze said at a briefing.

She said that four Russian jets later bombed Gori, the hometown of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, but that raid didn't cause any casualties.

Saakashvili urged Russia to immediately stop bombing Georgian territory. "Georgia will not yield its territory or renounce its freedom," he said.

A senior Russian diplomat in charge of the South Ossetian conflict, Yuri Popov, dismissed the Georgian claims of Russian bombings as misinformation, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported.

Russia's Defense Ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a "dirty adventure." "Blood shed in South Ossetia will weigh on their conscience," the ministry said in a statement posted on its Web site.

"We will protect our peacekeepers and Russian citizens," it said without elaboration.

Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev later chaired a session of his Security Council in the Kremlin, vowing that Moscow will protect Russian citizens.

"In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Medvedev said, according to Russian news reports. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots go unpunished."

Saakashvili long has pledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and built up ties with Moscow.

Relations between Georgia and Russia worsened notably this year as Georgia pushed to join NATO and Russia dispatched additional peacekeeper forces to Abkhazia.

The Georgian attack came just hours after Saakashvili announced a unilateral cease-fire in a television broadcast late Thursday in which he also urged South Ossetian separatist leaders to enter talks on resolving the conflict.

Georgian officials later blamed South Ossetian separatists for thwarting the cease-fire by shelling Georgian villages in the area.

___

Associated Press writers Misha Dzhindzhikhashvili in Tbilisi, Vladimir Isachenkov in Moscow and John Heilprin at the United Nations contributed to this report.

---------------

Have 2 nuclear states ever faced off directly in a war before?

[jyl]

Don't know about nuclear. But a major oil pipeline runs through Georgia.

Edit: My impression was the "nuclear" in Georgia was nuclear waste.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Long on crude anyone?

[rcecale]

You guys have no clue as to what you're talking about! I'm in downton Atlanta (Actually, mid-town) and there is no war going on outside! It's a beautiful day, sunny, not too hot (for a change) It's simply beautiful!

Oh wait...you're talking about the other Georgia...

Randy

[jyl]

Anyone know much about the military forces and geography of the region?

My impression is South Ossetia is hard to get to, from Russia - there's one highway that goes through a 2.5 mile tunnel, seems like an obvious bottleneck, don't know if the Georgian military has the ability to close it. Don't know if Georgian military is any good, I know have been joint US/NATO/Georgian military exercises recently. Don't know if Russian military is any good either.

[varmint]

this has been going off and on for ten years. the interesting part for me has been the way the russian regulars have been getting their asses kicked. not in the usual guerilla sabotage way. they're losing stand up conventional fights.

[MichiganMat]

Originally Posted by rcecale

You guys have no clue as to what you're talking about! I'm in downton Atlanta (Actually, mid-town) and there is no war going on outside! It's a beautiful day, sunny, not too hot (for a change) It's simply beautiful!

Oh wait...you're talking about the other Georgia...

Randy

Theres another Georgia? Thats unpossible! If its true, and thats highly unlikely, they deserve to be invaded for stealing our name. Go get your own name Ruskies!

[tabs]

I don't pay much attention to Russia. They are a backwards ignorant people. They have always been expansionist. After the fall of the USSR they were BK. It was a free for all, with the Apratchek types and Black Market types having a field day stealing all the industries they could. There really isn't much rule of law in the place. It is the wild west. Russians always had one form or another of totalarian rule. Putin may have steped aside but he isn't far from the throne. They have gotten rich on the price of oil. They have a vested interest in keeping the price high. They mainly sell it to Europe. They have big reserves of Natural Gas. Unless they have upgraded their production facilities with the new oil money their production system is antiquated and is an environmental sewer. They don't really care if they sh!+ where they eat or not.

There is no love lost between Russia and any of her neighbors. My guess is that they are retalitating for something Georgia did to them, rather than wanting to take over the place. God forbid if they should damage an oil pipeline that is their bread and butter.

[dd74]

Funny how this happens on the day the Olympics begin. Distraction, anyone?

[URY914]

They are fighting over peanuts and peaches. I hope Road Atlanta doesn't get hit with an air strike.

[tabs]

First Sherman and now the Russians...

[Superman]

The old fart in the guard shack at my work place is focused on this today. It is refreshing to hear him whine and ***** and moan about a government other than mine. He's like you guys......his entire social life centers around AM talk show radio where he gets filled with the hatred-du-jour for America's government. And like you guys, he considers himself to be a patriot. What do you call someone who is continually bashing America? Patriot?

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Superman

The old fart in the guard shack at my work place is focused on this today. It is refreshing to hear him whine and ***** and moan about a government other than mine. He's like you guys......his entire social life centers around AM talk show radio where he gets filled with the hatred-du-jour for America's government. And like you guys, he considers himself to be a patriot. What do you call someone who is continually bashing America? Patriot?

So he's not smart & sophisticated like you?

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Mule

So he's not smart & sophisticated like you?

As with you guys, he is only as informed as necessary to enrage him. Information that will not enrage.....is counterproductive. Hatred is the entertainment goal. Not that I need to tell you guys that.......

[RWebb]

I have to admit that my first thought as I watched the armored Russian convoy move into Georgia was that just a few US jets could splat the entire thing.

John - the border is quite mountainous. The Russians have a vastly superior military rel. to the Georgians. Watch for us to "sell" some arms to them in the near future.

I don't think Putin is going to get what he wants out of this....