Are things really that bad?

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

And as more organized groups write more checks to more politicians (take teachers for instance..) to insulate themselves from any changes or taking their own fair lumps in this game - how is that going to affect the outcome??

Not to quote myself - but you see what I mean? The boomers are going to bankrupt us all...

[rcecale]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I ordered a beer, and YOU BRING ME A WATER!!!!!

And he drank half of it too!!!

Randy

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Superman

It's all Dubya's fault. (I couldn't resist)

I'm doing well. Frankly, my future depends partly on the election of Mr. Obama and the quick and decisive recission of Executive Order 13202, signed by Mr. Bush as one of his very first acts as "president." Mr. Bush has been (quite predictably) an enemy not just of organized labor, but of the working men and women of America. Not only do my fortunes ride on this election, but so do the fortunes of most working Americans. A great many workers' rights have been denied these past seven years.

i'd love to see a list of those violated rights.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

Not to quote myself - but you see what I mean? The boomers are going to bankrupt us all...

They certainly did so to the auto industry. Everyone involved raped our goose repeatably and with malice.

[legion]

Originally Posted by cgarr

Here is ours!

That's pretty much the boat I'm in. I have no complaints of substance about my job.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

They certainly did so to the auto industry. Everyone involved raped our goose repeatably and with malice.

can you educate us on this subject, particularly about what the boomers did to the auto industry? i am genuinely curious.

[Flatbutt1]

I'm either optimistic or stupid. 56 years old, fairly stable pharma job(Ihope), house was paid for. But it was almost falling down. Not really in shape to be sold as it was. Do I put off the huge renovation and hope it doesn't fall and maybe be saddled with a crap house after I retire? Or bite the bullet now?

I bit the bullet, put $100K into the house. I can easily afford the payments as long as I keep working. So I guess things are good for me right now.

[tobster1911]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

They certainly did so to the auto industry. Everyone involved raped our goose repeatably and with malice.

At least Rodeo's goat is safe.




It is safe right?

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by tobster1911

At least Rodeo's goat is safe.




It is safe right?

It's still alive if that's what you're asking.

[Steve Viegas]

Things are worse off, but I have to say I brought them upon myself. Now I have to figure out how to make things work.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by nynor

can you educate us on this subject, particularly about what the boomers did to the auto industry? i am genuinely curious.

They are the generation that setup the union contracts and corporate entitlement system that has crippled the industry. I'm not saying any other generation wouldn't have done the same, just that they were given the opportunity and did. Great wealth was built in the boomer ranks at the expense of the future.

[nynor]

ahh.... the corporate entitlement system is what you are referring. i couldn't agree more. the amounts that corporate officers are making now are unconscionable, obscene, among other things.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by nynor

ahh.... the corporate entitlement system is what you are referring. i couldn't agree more. the amounts that corporate officers are making now are unconscionable, obscene, among other things.

I am more so referring to the layers upon layers of management and legacy costs. High corporate wages are so far down on the list of problems it's not worth discussing.

The unions and complicit management that enabled them rather than stand with backbones literally miked the industry dry.

The layered and group based management decision making approach destroyed creativity and fostered design to the lowest common denominator.

[Jagshund]

I just won $1000 in gift cards from Publix, so I guess I'm doing pretty well. Twinkies for the next month are all FREE . . .

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Superman

It's all Dubya's fault. (I couldn't resist)

I'm doing well. Frankly, my future depends partly on the election of Mr. Obama and the quick and decisive recission of Executive Order 13202, signed by Mr. Bush as one of his very first acts as "president." Mr. Bush has been (quite predictably) an enemy not just of organized labor, but of the working men and women of America. Not only do my fortunes ride on this election, but so do the fortunes of most working Americans. A great many workers' rights have been denied these past seven years.

Thanks for predictably bringing politics into the discussion after I respectfully requested a simple answer. So by workers rights, you mean the right to extort wages from your company that are 2x what you're worth? Better benefits than the college educated salary employees? Because that's what the morons walking the line outside my office seem to think they're "worth", and they'll get it. For now at least. Then when their jobs go elsewhere, it will be passed off as corporate greed. But in reality, years of unreasonable requests from the union will finally push the jobs elsewhere.

Considering your line of work Supe, I'm sure you'll disagree. But personally, I think wages between $12 and $30/hr, health/dental/vision insurance (for less than I pay), identical vacation, better earned time off, and better pension/401k aren't much to complain about. This is for blue collar workers with no formal training or education. In my blue collar days, I would have killed for such a deal. But MORE, it's always about MORE. Ultimately, the greed of the unions and their lack of leadership will probably drive many of the jobs elsewhere, something I really hate to see. And these employees that have been so convinced of their own self importance will be working the Wal-Mart checkout for $6/hr.

Feel free to disregard me, but the American blue collar factory worker is still alive and well, they're just working in non-union states.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

I am more so referring to the layers upon layers of management and legacy costs. High corporate wages are so far down on the list of problems it's not worth discussing.

The unions and complicit management that enabled them rather than stand with backbones literally miked the industry dry.

The layered and group based management decision making approach destroyed creativity and fostered design to the lowest common denominator.

in the end, that is more of what i was referring to. its basically a pyramid scheme that is played out by the officers and their layers of cronies. the "decision by committee" is a separate issue that was fostered by the former. we are in agreement on both.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by Superman

It's all Dubya's fault. (I couldn't resist)

I'm doing well. Frankly, my future depends partly on the election of Mr. Obama and the quick and decisive recission of Executive Order 13202, signed by Mr. Bush as one of his very first acts as "president." Mr. Bush has been (quite predictably) an enemy not just of organized labor, but of the working men and women of America. Not only do my fortunes ride on this election, but so do the fortunes of most working Americans. A great many workers' rights have been denied these past seven years.

It's too bad your future is dependent on the election of Mr. Obama.

I'm guessing that based on the fact that you have almost 14,000 posts, you really don't work that hard and need Mr. Obama to take care of you.

Good luck!

[Scuba Steve]

Originally Posted by Superman

It's all Dubya's fault. (I couldn't resist)

I'm doing well. Frankly, my future depends partly on the election of Mr. Obama and the quick and decisive recission of Executive Order 13202, signed by Mr. Bush as one of his very first acts as "president." Mr. Bush has been (quite predictably) an enemy not just of organized labor, but of the working men and women of America. Not only do my fortunes ride on this election, but so do the fortunes of most working Americans. A great many workers' rights have been denied these past seven years.

Executive Order 13202 states

Section 1. To the extent permitted by law, any executive agency awarding any construction contract after the date of this order, or obligating funds pursuant to such a contract, shall ensure that neither the awarding Government authority nor any construction manager acting on behalf of the Government shall, in its bid specifications, project agreements, or other controlling documents:

(a) Require or prohibit bidders, offerors, contractors, or subcontractors to enter into or adhere to agreements with one or more labor organizations, on the same or other related construction project(s);...

So basically it's a bad thing that the government can't state in a bid that they require the winner to enter an agreement with a union? Nevermind the fact that this order prevents the government from stating the winner can't go into an agreement with a labor organization either...

I say let the best offer win, and let the union / non-union detail become a non-issue.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Thanks for predictably bringing politics into the discussion after I respectfully requested a simple answer. So by workers rights, you mean the right to extort wages from your company that are 2x what you're worth? Better benefits than the college educated salary employees? Because that's what the morons walking the line outside my office seem to think they're "worth", and they'll get it. For now at least. Then when their jobs go elsewhere, it will be passed off as corporate greed. But in reality, years of unreasonable requests from the union will finally push the jobs elsewhere.

Considering your line of work Supe, I'm sure you'll disagree. But personally, I think wages between $12 and $30/hr, health/dental/vision insurance (for less than I pay), identical vacation, better earned time off, and better pension/401k aren't much to complain about. This is for blue collar workers with no formal training or education. In my blue collar days, I would have killed for such a deal. But MORE, it's always about MORE. Ultimately, the greed of the unions and their lack of leadership will probably drive many of the jobs elsewhere, something I really hate to see. And these employees that have been so convinced of their own self importance will be working the Wal-Mart checkout for $6/hr.

Feel free to disregard me, but the American blue collar factory worker is still alive and well, they're just working in non-union states.

i couldn't have said it better. i am betting that what was really meant by "workers rights" is "workers entitlements".

[onewhippedpuppy]

For folks like Supe, rights = entitlements.