Toyko Fed Ex Crash

[edgemar]

Has anyone see this video. What happened?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Looks like possibly a microburst or windshear issue, or some sort of catastrophic control failure immediately before. Hard to tell for certain.

Very awful crash though.

[DSouth]

Wow! I just got back from Tokyo yesterday.

[rouxroux]

Yeah...MD-11...Normy, what was it? wind? Looks like the nose gear took a few bounces.

EDIT: Normy, just saw your other thread....tragic.

[m21sniper]

His nose just dropped like a rock at the last second before touch down.

I'm seriously doubting any pilot would do that. I'll go out on a limb and say some sort of mechanical or computer problem.

[Dottore]

Looks like a loading/weight distribution issue to me.

[MT930]

Wake Turbulence ? Looks like it porpoised and rolled very sad.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

It'd have to be some pretty serious wake turbulence to upset a heavy MD11. Don't know of too many airplanes that could kick up a wake that strong.

Absolutely horrible crash. Reminded me of the B2 crash a while back - simply nothing you can do with so little airspeed and loss of directional control. You're so vulnerable at that point...

[DasBoot]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Looks like a loading/weight distribution issue to me.

That happened here (FLL) about two years ago to a UPS plane. Load shifted on take-off. Pilots survived, however.

Edit: This article cites high winds: http://www.airdisaster.com/news/article.php?id=49

[Zef]

Microburst......???? Look like a L-1011 crash in the eighties.....

[onewhippedpuppy]

Supposedly there were pretty nasty cross-wind conditions at that time.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by Zef

Microburst......???? Look like a L-1011 crash in the eighties.....

It's bad to speculate before they pull the info off the FDR and CVR but it indeed looks like microburst, sudden pitch-up, overcorrection, hard hit which broke left undercarriage, then cartwheel.

I find the video very disturbing. One of those freak-accidents.

Are MD-11 reversers manual or automatic-triggered?

[fingpilot]

Landing at Narita in a crosswind can be a handful. The terminals and the rows of fuel bunkers throw quite a wake quite a ways downwind. You'll think you have it nailed, then everything goes crazy, usually 10 feet over the runway as you come into the wind shadow of them. Winds were running 45+ knots at the time (not unusual there).

Lets wait to see the results of the DFDR and CVR outputs before we go too far afield.

[Heel n Toe]

Look at the first of the three video segments here... after main gear contacts the runway, the front gear slams down hard, then the whole plane bounces violently off the runway before coming back down nose first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3rkrrrF6Ls&feature=related

[fingpilot]

Normy;

First off, condolences to the FedEx family.

Gang:

The MD11 is the growth variant of the DC10. The similarities end there. Because of the 'stretch' and the redesign of the DC10 into what eventually became the MD11, there were quite a few systems and design changes that occurred as the plane matured. The type rating was different for the two. There was even a MD10, a back variant of the MD11 using the DC10 airframe.

The investigation will sort out the actual cause, but as it does, you'll hear all about the autospoilers, the SAS added to compensate for a different tailplane, the 'active horizontal stab', and the unusual pitches that config change (some of it automatic) and power changes have on flying this series of plane. It was a very complex relationship. Yes, I've seen the videos, showing the first set of touchdowns, and watched the crash progress. I think there were several things going on all at once. But the only important part of it all is to wait for the data from the orange box before speculating.

You'll hear some nicknames given to the MD11 that are not funny. It was a modern, very capable machine based on a venerable design. Flown by a very capable crew.

Lest we ever forget, a crash is NEVER a single event brought on by a single event. Murphy is a passenger on every flight.

We will all learn from this and every crash.

And mourn the loss of friends.

[Tim Hancock]

Looks to me as if the left main gear gave up the ghost after a very hard bounce. Obviously the bottom must have fell out on his initial flare which resulted in the horrendous bounce.

I have no experience in the big stuff, but in the small private aircraft I fly, I simply raise my final approach speed signifigantly on gusty day landings and fly it on landing long. I am guessing that option is not available to the same degree with the big heavy birds.

[fingpilot]

This shot is the same type of plane, taken from the other side of the same runway at the same airport. The long runway at Narita has big structures on both sides of the runway. In the crash videos, you can see the rows of big tanks (never bet you'd guess what they are full of...) in the background. The terminals are lining the opposite side of the runway. All of these obstructions make any crosswind an attention-getting event. A 'Windshear Alert' is commonplace at Narita. The video here shows a 'normal' MD11 crosswind landing. Watch very closely.

Angle of yaw as plane approaches the runway.
Rudder (above engine on tail) swinging markedly as pilot deals with x-wind.
Tips of the wings and winglets flexing with the turbulence.
Elevator going both very positive and negative as plane crosses fence, then,
Elevators still responding down after mains touch down.
Autospoilers partially deploying with mains touchdown (40 degrees), then,
Finally deploying to 60 degrees when nosegear touches down.
Plane leaning left as it rolls out after touchdown (away from the wind).
Rudder still very actively swinging as pilot inputs to keep plane on runway.

The rulebook says you add half the xwind to the final speed, plus any gust.
Yes, you can have an 11000 foot runway that is too short.

Here's the vid;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWZzxqQMoro

[t6dpilot]

First off, condolences to the families of the Fed Ex pilots. Horrible crash. I sure as heck hope it is not anyone I know. Fingpilot, that is a great vid. Those guys must have been sweating bullets as they say. Man that really shows the work that goes into fighting a big crosswind. Nice job. I can remember some of my toughest CW landings in my T6 and a Twin Beech - 22G28 90 degrees to the runway are a couple I can remember. That'll wrap you tight...

[rattlsnak]

You guys are missing the beginning of the video. There is tire smoke already. The plane touched down once, and then got airborne again resulting in the hard/bounce landing.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by fingpilot

Lest we ever forget, a crash is NEVER a single event brought on by a single event. Murphy is a passenger on every flight.

We will all learn from this and every crash.

And mourn the loss of friends.

All true.

No idea what caused the porpoise (pilot induced oscillation, computer failure, etc.). To hazard a guess is inappropriate at this time.

The left gear does fail and the rapid increase in AoA and left roll are extreme.

Condolences to the FedEx family and the families and friends of the aircrew..