Pilots who 'get it' vs pilots that are trained

[old man neri]

To get into the Airforce as a pilot I first had to do a 3 day aircrew selection. It was simple simulators and aptitude testing. There is a 75% failure rate on that. Then I went on to the first flight phase, still considered to be a bit of a selection phase. I saw 1 in 3 fail on that course. Now a days I am still in the training process and to succeed you have to want to be perfect at everything, never settle for less, and seek out knowledge. Being a checklist monkey simply is not acceptable.

My 0.02 from my limited experience.

[t6dpilot]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I made just barely over $20k a year for flying cargo (usually sacks full of bank checks and cash for ATM deposits, as well as UPS feeder stuff). This was for being up before dawn every single day, out there in the weather (rain, sleet, cold, whatever) to preflight, load my own cargo and fly off to some god-foresaken corner of the world, then sit around there all day in some dumpy hotel or crappy company apartment, and in the evening do the opposite route finally getting home at about 9 or 10 at night, only a few hours before having to be back at the airport to do it again.

Often the flights were single-pilot IFR, in nasty conditions, in dilapidated, 40+ year old airplanes with torn seats, beat-up avionics and many, many cycles on them.

However, it was also the best job I ever had. I'd do it again in a heartbeat, because I loved the flying. Unfortunately the love of flying affords sleazeball businesses with a "carrot" to manipulate people with - exactly what happened to me and what happens to many others. The line they spew is, "think of all the valuable experience you're getting - that has a value that you should consider in addition to what your [meager] paycheck is..."

Yes, it's a stinkload of B.S. But there are people (like me) that will line up around the block for the opportunity because we LOVE TO FLY. I used to say (and still do) that a bad day flying was better than the best day sitting in an office somewhere. There are a lot of people who believe that and it allows the carriers to lowball their pilots and be "carrot danglers". The "carrot" is the promise of "someday" making it into the left seat of that commercial jet with the six-figure paycheck and the 10-day-a-month flight schedule because of all the "valuable experience" you're getting by eating turd sandwiches and working for less than an In-n-Out Burger employee today.

Most guys never make it that far. It's a tough, gritty, dirty, sleazy industry. But a lot of us put up with it because we LOVE TO FLY.

I will do it again in a heartbeat. Gladly. So maybe I'm the problem. Or maybe the industry's eagerness to exploit my enthusiasm is the problem. Or maybe both.

Jeff, I feel exactly the same way. I am not a commercial airline pilot, but did entertain the idea pretty seriously several years ago while I was in transition in my career. I was well above minimum experience level and had an "in" with a regional carrier based out of Utah. I just did not want to go back to essentially zero income and was unsure about the industry. I did look into cargo flying and since they don't really fly piston aircraft any more, I was SOL. I am not a turbine rated pilot, so that was that for me. But, if I could find a job flying cargo on some beater Twin Beech, I would be all over that. Come to think of it, even if it was some old 210, I would be good.

[Rikao4]

I had the privilege of being a crew-member with Helo Pilots that had 'it'
when your dangling below the Helo..
you got to trust them..
I did...
do it again in a heartbeat..

you don't strap in..you strap it on

Rika

[jyl]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Doctors are paid well because their profession requires constant training, has high stress, little room for error, and can involve life or death decisions. Pilots should receive the same respect. A bad doctor could potentially kill one person. A bad pilot could potentially kill 400+.

Jeff, I can't think of a better way to make a living. If I didn't have a family, I would seriously consider flying as a career.

I think there is a demand/supply and economic aspect to this too.

Doctors have to go through college, then med school, then residency, then pass boards, this takes a decade or more of training (10-12 yrs?) and an investment of hundreds of thousands of dollars ($200-300K?), and I imagine a lot of the process is exhausting and mind-numbing. A pilot can do a couple years of flight school and be at least minimally qualified enough to reach for the first rung of the ladder (maybe it shouldn't be that way, but judging from this Colgan pilot, apparently it is). So the supply of doctors is more restricted than the supply of pilots. (Not a knock on pilots, I can hardly think of any profession with entry barriers like doctors.)

Further, doctors work in a very profitable industry, healthcare is growing more and has more pricing power than any other major economic sector. Airlines are just the opposite. So the economics that support doctor's wages are very different that that which supports pilots.

I'm neither a doctor nor a pilot, so sorry and please correct me if I'm mistating the situation.

I'd add that I think pilots of commercial passenger aircraft should be paid more. If there was a proposal to add $10 or $30 to every plane ticket price, to support higher wages for the pilots, I'd vote for it - it would be a no-brainer IMHO.

[Seahawk]

Your post is exactly right. There is a sizable group than loves to fly and can pass the minimum quals required to honk a plane around the sky. Supply nearly always exceeds demand.

This is one of the few areas I think needs a minimum wage, a floor so to speak. If I stall a burger in mid-flip, miss the spatula, no one dies...

We are faced with a situation in that the Air Traffic Controlers often make more money than the pilots of the planes.

Originally Posted by jyl

I think there is a demand/supply and economic aspect to this too.

Doctors have to go through college, then med school, then residency, then pass boards, this takes a decade or more of training (10-12 yrs?) and an investment of hundreds of thousands of dollars ($200-300K?), and I imagine a lot of the process is exhausting and mind-numbing. A pilot can do a couple years of flight school and be at least minimally qualified enough to reach for the first rung of the ladder (maybe it shouldn't be that way, but judging from this Colgan pilot, apparently it is). So the supply of doctors is more restricted than the supply of pilots. (Not a knock on pilots, I can hardly think of any profession with entry barriers like doctors.)

Further, doctors work in a very profitable industry, healthcare is growing more and has more pricing power than any other major economic sector. Airlines are just the opposite. So the economics that support doctor's wages are very different that that which supports pilots.

I'm neither a doctor nor a pilot, so sorry and please correct me if I'm mistating the situation.

[450knotOffice]

The best pilots I know are what I call "instinctive" pilots. They have a feel for flight similar to the the skill for walking we all take for granted.

Can most pros fly their jet without any instruments? In visual conditions, I am certain they can. I am certain I can. It's all about pitch and power and their interrelationship. It's about the "feel" of the airplane through the yoke in your hands and the sound of the wind past the windscreen, or lack thereof. If you know your airplane (as I do, and I suspect most pros do), you only really need the instruments to fine tune the outcome.

[oldschoollear]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

There's a HUGE push to simplify the cockpit and automate systems to reduce pilot workload, therefore increasing his focus on flying the plane. Dark cockpits, increased focus on ergonomics/human factors, system automation, it's all with the goal of making flying easier and safer. Here's one of our single pilot jets (a bit simpler than a WWII fighter).



Pilatus PC-12NG interior (very nice) that was designed with help from BMW Designworks:

Wow!, here's mine.

[oldschoollear]

These are my first jet and turboprop. You better have "feel" in the lear or it can turn into the vomit comet.

[450knotOffice]

Well heck, if you're going to show me yours, I'll show you mine. (which variant of Lear is that, btw?)

[oldschoollear]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Well heck, if you're going to show me yours, I'll show you mine. (which variant of Lear is that, btw?)

The first is 35a, second 24d. 24d was a hoot 13800 matow, 2850 lbs thrust per side.
What "ram horned" beauty is that?

[old man neri]

Originally Posted by oldschoollear

What "ram horned" beauty is that?

I am going to take a guess from what is written on the dash that it's an ERJ-140.

[oldschoollear]

Originally Posted by old man neri

I am going to take a guess from what is written on the dash that it's an ERJ-140.

Sarcasm is like a second language to me, so I'm feeling you

[Embraer]

Originally Posted by oldschoollear

What "ram horned" beauty is that?

we call 'em pig tails!

[oldschoollear]

Originally Posted by Embraer

we call 'em pig tails!

That's funny. Whyn though? Is she a little "piggy" in the summer?

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by oldschoollear

What "ram horned" beauty is that?

Junglejet..........

Here's my old good time machine....

[oldschoollear]

Originally Posted by Snapper33

Junglejet..........

Here's my old good time machine....

I have zero clue what that is, but it looks fun.

[old man neri]

I'll play

Not as nice as the other ones but still a lot and a lot of fun.

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by oldschoollear

I have zero clue what that is, but it looks fun.

F/A-18 Hornet, the most fun I could have asked for at age 25. Landing on a carrier was like having sex and being in a car crash at the same time.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

I had the privilege of being a crew-member with Helo Pilots that had 'it'
when your dangling below the Helo..
you got to trust them..
I did...
do it again in a heartbeat..

you don't strap in..you strap it on

Rika

Helo pilots impress the hell out of me. Seen them do some amazing things.

My sister was a Blackhawk medevac pilot in Iraq and Astan as well.

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

My sister was a Blackhawk medevac pilot in Iraq and Astan as well.

You know the deal........pics or ban.