Porsche owner run over and killed after confronting fellow driver in deadly L.I. road

[Tervuren]

I had a situation where I went to pass a pickup truck in a legal passing zone, and he tried to run me into the ditch off the other side of the road. I got out of there as soon as possible like a bat out of torment. I was able to be somewhat cool and collected about it - if I'd of had a similar temper to whatever/whoever tried to wreck me out I'd of using my kart racing reflexes to put my front right in just the right spot and get him sideways and flip him. Would not of been good. As it is, I just stood on the brakes and took off for some place other than home.

[Monza_dh]

This all happenned at 10am?? when I was young i had a few road rage incedents. Both at night after partying and both could have ended up worse. One was at 2am after many cut offs and swerves the guy stopped in front of me at a light and came out of his car to start shtt .well I got out and his buddy came over formo the side whacked me in the head with a billy club. I fought off more swings and finally got close enough to wrestle him to the ground and grab the club. Once I had it he and his buddy ran off so I took out my anger on his nice new 300z. I then drove to the hospital and needed 10 stiches top close the hole in my forehead.

Now I would NEVER get out of the car and always avoid the RR on the highway. What was once settled by fists is now settled by a knife, a gin or in this case a car.

[RWebb]

a lot of people are making comments based on what they assume happened or some witness claimed happened

the reason we have trails is to figure out what DID happen - let's wait for that

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by RWebb

a lot of people are making comments based on what they assume happened or some witness claimed happened

the reason we have trails is to figure out what DID happen - let's wait for that

Best idea so far.

[URY914]

A trial will not prove what happened. OJ comes to mind.

[widgeon13]

A trial might!

[on2wheels52]

Too many mice in the cage?
Jim

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by URY914

No way. All he had to do was lock himself in the car. No need to run him over.
Porsche Dude did not :
-have a gun
-have a bat
-have a knife

Kid over reacted. You don't run someone over for yelling at you.

A dude that big can easily punch right through the window, and he was physically assaulting the car.

To me, that's the same as assaulting the kid.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by TimT

Wouldn't you head for a Police Station if you were under threat?

The guy blocked him in. And stepped in front of the car as he tried to pull away. IF that is accurate, sorry, the dude asked for it.

Stepping in front of a car when someone is trying to escape your violent loss of control is extremely stupid.

Originally Posted by Gogar

Snipe, I don't understand why you think it's okay for a guy to drive his car over another person, and smoosh their head like a watermelon, brains on the street,

But an angry cop kicking a gang member who just led 10 cop cars and 2 helicopters on a 40-minute car chase is outrageous.

Because he was trying to escape a violent assault. It's not like he intentionally drove over the dude, the guy jumped in front of him to block his escape, ostensibly to violently assault him.

The Porsche dude totally lost control, and a guy 6'5" should know better then to be acting like a madman.

The cop incident is totally irrelevant to this.

Originally Posted by Aurel

Sniper cannot stand cops, but can stand being run over by cars .

Yep. BTDT. Several times.

6'5" dude might actually try NOT jumping IN FRONT OF the car next time. (see, i try to jump OUT of the way, so far i've always been at least partially successful)

I mean hello people...duh.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

The Porsche guy blocked the Altima guy multiple times, got out of his car and beat on the Altima hood, then again blocked any escape path (unfortunately with his body). What did the Altima guy do? Talk trash?

It's also telling that the Altima driver tried to escape multiple times and also called 911. Those are not the actions of someone trying to pick a fight, those are the actions of someone being attacked. He should get off for this.

Jesus, thanks, someone else can actually read besides me.

The 6'5" Porsche dude would not take no for an answer, he was going to get his hands on the kid no matter what apparently.

The dude is dead because- straight up- he's a g-damn moron. And because, obviously, he was a maniac.

Originally Posted by URY914

Sure, self defense is locking the doors and calling 9-1-1.

Nope, that's not self defense. That's what you'd call a prudent precaution, and the kid did do that. As well as trying to escape the violent assault on his vehicle.

Originally Posted by URY914

Not dropping it into gear and running over an unarmed man. He could have moved up slowly and pushed him out of the way. The man did not deserve to die for beating on a punk's hood with his bare hands.

The man was not unarmed.

Disparity of force clauses exist specifically for 6'5" violent meat heads like him. Look up the term, and you will see that he could actually be considered a deadly weapon simply because of his size and the kid's lack thereof.

And what if he had his hand behind his back, or put it into his waistband? Do we know if that happened? If that kid thought for 1 second he thought the guy had a gun, he's justified far beyond any sort of reasonable doubt to flee even if it means hitting the guy.

But ultimately, know why the man died?

Because he's a complete idiot for trying to block a fleeing car WITH HIS BODY.

Total, complete, moron. Sorry to be so blunt, but WTF, what kind of idiot comes up with a plan like that? Oh, right, a crazed and maniacal one bent on carrying out his violent attack.

Now if more facts come out, ok, my interpretation is subject to change, but based on what i read, sorry....the guy was pretty much not going to take no for an answer. And that's why he's dead.

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I know NY is nothing like the free states with good self-defense laws. But in states where you are allowed to use deadly force to defend yourself, you're usually covered if you make an overt attempt to withdraw from the fight. I'd say his attempts to escape and calling 911 would cover his butt in many states. Probably not in NY though.

I believe the first test case in TX's CCW law was a road rage incident, where the defense claimed a victim should not have to wait until his last breath before using deadly force.

Yep.

That's why i said in a lot of states this kid would be out already.

Originally Posted by Danimal16

The kid should never have reengaged.

THAT is where the kid totally screwed up. First time he was away and clear he should have never gone back.

If you're gonna hold the kid responsible, that's the angle you play up. Because yeah, that was completely stupid, reckless, and childish.

Still doesn't excuse the other idiots actions though.

Originally Posted by RWebb

a lot of people are making comments based on what they assume happened or some witness claimed happened

the reason we have trails is to figure out what DID happen - let's wait for that

Dude, it's the interent.

[Rick Lee]

Other than the police station about a mile from my house, I have no idea where other police stations are. People always suggest driving to the nearest police station. I'd have no idea where that is, unless I was right by my house.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

A dude that big can easily punch right through the window, and he was physically assaulting the car.

To me, that's the same as assaulting the kid.

i agree. unfortunately, if charged, a jury will likely find he used an unreasonable amount of force in defending himself since he used his car as a deadly weapon and the victim apparently did not use anything but his hands. assuming that they do not think this was just an accident that happened while he was trying to flee

trying to put myself in this kids place, i probably would have stepped on the gas too

[TimT]

"The kid was in shock. He kept saying, 'I had no choice. I didn't know what to do,'"

So run someone over and kill them..

What did he contribute to this this episode?...

The guy blocked him in. And stepped in front of the car as he tried to pull away.

And that warrants running someone over and killing them?

Take a look at this pic....there are a number of businesses surrounding the intersection where this happened.. also very close to LBPD HQ..The kid may have not known that the law was really seconds away...



This event happened in a matter of seconds on a busy street

Sniper you have one seriously skewed view ... So what if the guy was 6'3" or 6'5 depending on reports... Actually he was no Andre the Giant, or Hulk Hogan.. his build was slender..and the two or so times I talked with him he seemed quite down to earth..

Both individuals involved are guilty in this tragedy .. One lost his life, the other life is changed forever..

No matter if the guy stepped in front of the car... or pounded on the hood... someone pressed on the accelerator of the Nissan and ran someone over..

Heaven forbid I'm in Philly and happen to walk in front of your car and look at you wrong...

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by TimT

Heaven forbid I'm in Philly and happen to walk in front of your car and look at you wrong...

Yeah, that's just what happened here.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by URY914

A trial will not prove what happened. OJ comes to mind.

Legal proof is often imperfect.



But far better than just speculation.

[TimT]

Yeah, that's just what happened here.

You sure? You know all about what happened from a few quotes from the accused? and a few people who may or may not have really witnessed the event?

Only one side of this story might be told now... really... run someone over..

Go to a Yankee game sometime... you run the chance of having someone do a drum roll on the hood of your car...Forget if the Rangers are on a roll...

Its a crazy world we live in now...

[88-diamondblue]

Both of them at made stupid decisons and both get the consequences of these decisions. The kid is charged with 2nd degree manslughter and the other guy is dead. Doubt very much the kid will walk away form this without some time in prison time.

This kid is not an innocent 22y/o. He was arrested for having burglery tools and criminal trespass. He just didn't get to commiting the burgery before the police got him. Most likely not the first time ether. And this guy was 6'3" and slender build breaking a window is not an easy thing to do as was said previouisly (we tried on a car that was going to the crusher) unless you are carring something to hit it with.

Life changes with one stupid decision and both are guilty. One gets to live with it, the other died!

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by TimT

And that warrants running someone over and killing them?

If someone STEPS IN FRONT OF YOUR VEHICLE as you pull out to escape their violent onslaught, it's not your fault, not in my opinion.

Originally Posted by TimT

Take a look at this pic....there are a number of businesses surrounding the intersection where this happened.. also very close to LBPD HQ..The kid may have not known that the law was really seconds away...

What does any of that have to do with the "law being seconds away"? And why would you even think that? My house is 5 minutes from the police station, they routinely take hours to show up if called, if they even come at all.

Originally Posted by TimT

Sniper you have one seriously skewed view ... So what if the guy was 6'3" or 6'5 depending on reports...

It's called "Disparity of force", it is a legal term, and justifies the use of deadly force vs otherwise unarmed individuals under some circumstances. Look it up.

It exists for situations like this to begin with.

Originally Posted by TimT

Actually he was no Andre the Giant, or Hulk Hogan.. his build was slender..and the two or so times I talked with him he seemed quite down to earth..

Real down to earth, banging on the kids car, running redlights and blocking him in, and JUMPING IN FRONT OF HIS CAR as he tried to flee.

And my view is skewed? LOL...wow.

Originally Posted by TimT

No matter if the guy stepped in front of the car... or pounded on the hood... someone pressed on the accelerator of the Nissan and ran someone over..

Incorrect (according to at least one witnesses statements). According to him: Someone was already stepping on the accelerator to ESCAPE, and the other one STEPPED IN FRONT OF A MOVING CAR to stop him.

Hello.

Originally Posted by TimT

Heaven forbid I'm in Philly and happen to walk in front of your car and look at you wrong...

Yes, becuase that's what happened here....

If you're 6'5" and enraged, run red lights, block intersections with your car, jump out in a rage, pound on my hood then try to block me as i escape, i'm not going to run you over at all.

I'm going to shoot you.

PS: My opinions are based on the "facts" as reported above. If they change, so will my opinion.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by TimT

You sure? You know all about what happened from a few quotes from the accused? and a few people who may or may not have really witnessed the event?

Only one side of this story might be told now... really... run someone over..

Go to a Yankee game sometime... you run the chance of having someone do a drum roll on the hood of your car...Forget if the Rangers are on a roll...

Its a crazy world we live in now...

There are witnesses comments, extensive witnesses comments.

Did you even read the stories?

According to at least one witness: The guy ran a red light, cut the kid off and blocked an intersection, jumped out of his car, the kid tried to reverse to escape but was blocked in, the 6'5" guy started pounding on his car, and the kid took off to escape and - according to one eyewitnesses account, the big guy STEPPED IN FRONT OF THE CAR to block him.

Darwin award of the year candidate.

In a lot of states, that kid would already be out and playing nintendo.

Originally Posted by 88-diamondblue

Both of them at made stupid decisons and both get the consequences of these decisions. The kid is charged with 2nd degree manslughter and the other guy is dead. Doubt very much the kid will walk away form this without some time in prison time.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the kid gets off. Depends on the jury.

Originally Posted by 88-diamondblue

This kid is not an innocent 22y/o. He was arrested for having burglery tools and criminal trespass. He just didn't get to commiting the burgery before the police got him.

Well that's totally irrelevant, but even if it wasn't, you know getting caught trespassing with a screwdriver in your back pocket would result in the same charges. And hey, im sure none of us have ever done anything wrong when we were kids...

Originally Posted by 88-diamondblue

Most likely not the first time ether.

Based on what?

Originally Posted by 88-diamondblue

And this guy was 6'3" and slender build

So? Bruce lee was 5'7" 138lbs and slender build. Besides, one of the reports lists 6'5"

Originally Posted by 88-diamondblue

breaking a window is not an easy thing to do as was said previouisly (we tried on a car that was going to the crusher) unless you are carring something to hit it with.

I've done it. All you need is to be wearing a ring and have the window cracked a little. And this was a big dude, i am not. Plus how would the kid know this? Most reasonable people would not make that assumption at all IMO.
Kicking one out for a guy that big would be no problem at all.

There is an old saying, and it applies here. "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Originally Posted by 88-diamondblue

Life changes with one stupid decision and both are guilty. One gets to live with it, the other died!

The guy in the Porsche is dead for one very simple reason.

Because he was stupid.

The kid was stupid for not leaving the first time he fled the scene though, there is no doubt about that. So i can see him being charged with something, just not manslaughter.

[88-diamondblue]

Actually no I never did anything like what he was arrested for and know many that did do not do anything like that. The police don't charge you with this unless they are pretty sure your on your way to do something, otherwise any descent lawyer would get those charges reduced/dismissed. I know I carry a screw driver in my back pocket all the time and criminally trespass frequently . Patterns of behaviour (profiling) based on what you do and rarely do you get caught first time around. Just like drunk drivers normally have done it many times before getting caught. No more specualtion on my part here than in your posts assuming he was justified in killing the guy for something he started.

You have done it with a ring on and with the window cracked. Do you really think that the window was cracked open, please.... I am 6' 235 and hitting with my hand hard enough to break it would have had injuries from it. Your basing the facts of breaking the window IF he had a ring on and IF the window was cracked open or he might have kicked it out, Speculation again.


He killed a guy and has offically been charged with it. He decided to run over the guy and gets to face the consequences. Time will tell whats in store for him.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by 88-diamondblue

Actually no I never did anything like what he was arrested for and know many that did do not do anything like that. The police don't charge you with this unless they are pretty sure your on your way to do something, otherwise any descent lawyer would get those charges reduced/dismissed.

Perhaps he was simply trespassing and mouthed off to a cop, so got locked up for suspicion of burglary? Perhaps he didn't have anything but a public defender? Perhaps he was gonna burglarize the joint and learned his lesson? Who knows- it's totally irrelevant to this case anyway.

Originally Posted by 88-diamondblue

I know I carry a screw driver in my back pocket all the time and criminally trespass frequently . Patterns of behaviour (profiling) based on what you do and rarely do you get caught first time around. Just like drunk drivers normally have done it many times before getting caught. No more specualtion on my part here than in your posts assuming he was justified in killing the guy for something he started.

Well that's certainly fair, and all well and good, but i really don't see how it's relevant at all. This is a totally unrelated event. It's a non violent misdemeanor.

You have done it with a ring on and with the window cracked. Do you really think that the window was cracked open, please.... I am 6' 235 and hitting with my hand hard enough to break it would have had injuries from it. Your basing the facts of breaking the window IF he had a ring on and IF the window was cracked open or he might have kicked it out, Speculation again.

Even if he couldnt punch the window out i'm thinking a 6'5" dude could easily kick it out with a single side kick. Will you at least concede that much?

As to the "facts", all we can do is speculate, right? We don't have all the facts- not even the jury usually gets all the facts, as a variety of things may be surpressed for one reason or another.

Someone posted an article, we are now all just giving our opinions based on what we "know." I've said many times that my opinion is only based on the facts i saw. If the facts turn out to be different than what was reported(imagine a reporter being wrong!) my opinions will be adjusted accordingly.

But based on what ive seen reported, the kid was right to fear for his safety. I would have feared for mine if i had a 6'5" dude running red lights, cutting me off, blocking intersections, pounding on my hood, and blocking my only escape route. I think in that kid's situation any prudent individual would have.

He killed a guy and has offically been charged with it. He decided to run over the guy and gets to face the consequences. Time will tell whats in store for him.

Lots of people have killed criminals in justifiable homicide scenarios and gotten arrested and charged for it. That doesn't make it right. It may turn out the kid was totally wrong as subsequent facts come to light. If they do, i will be sure to re-evaluate my position.

But any way you slice it, the Porsche dude was just begging to become a Darwin award candidate. Running redlights, blocking the altima at an intersection, jumping in front of a car attempting to flee.....these are all just plain wantonly stupid acts.

Let's face it, wanton stupidity is often fatal.

And yeah, the kid was a total ass for coming back to the scene after first getting away clean, if that happened as reported, so i agree he should face some charge, but not manslaughter. The simple fact is that if Mr. Porsche simply stepped aside, or never got out of his car, or never started pounding on the hood, he'd be alive today. He escalated the situation, at several steps, and ultimately, it cost him his own life.

But he can serve as a lesson to us all, so hopefully he did not die in vain.