Finally, no more tickets for not wearing a seatbelt!

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by stuartj

If you dont wear a belt in moving vehicle, you are an idiot. You are actually beyond idiot.

Stuart, I couldnt agree more. Ive pulled more than my share of victims and bodies out of windshields. But I still dont think the Govt. should tell us we have to wear one. I would never get on my motorcycle with out a helmet. But again dont tell me I HAVE TO wear it.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by Dennis Kalma

Oh, yeah, interesting story. The Buick I hit had prototype air bags in it, they went off, broke the collarbone of the occupant. Accident got investigated by your DOT and GM, they came and interviewed me. Both were engineers and we had a good conversation. They (at that time) said that the only reason air bags made sense is that the average American (as opposed to Canadian, European etc) would never reliably wear a seat belt and air bags were the best alternative. I think that technology moved on, but they were two very sincere gentlemen....both said that if you wore a seat belt reliably you did not really need air bags.

Dennis

Quite true. No airbags in racing cars.

The technology has moved on- I heard a talk delivered (by a Porsche engineer actually) most intersting- talking about drvers, age and airbags. I never rated airbags- but he pointed out- you reach a point as an experienced driver where you are far less likely to crash your own car, (needing mostly frontal bags) but that doesnt stop you being hit by someone else (frontal + supplematry bags) He changed my opinion about airbags.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

Stuart, I couldnt agree more. Ive pulled more than my share of victims and bodies out of windshields. But I still dont think the Govt. should tell us we have to wear one. I would never get on my motorcycle with out a helmet. But again dont tell me I HAVE TO wear it.

I understand the philosophical point - but your choice not to wear a restraint in my car endangers me. And while I understand in the US health insurnaces are private, society still pics up much of the cost of rehabilitating your busted ass or accomodating your wheel chair on the public bus, or your running your vegetable life support system and feeding your children. Its a nonsensical argument- IMO.

[T77911S]

wow, i cant believe it. someone else that hates to be forced to wear a seat belt. i got a ticket not long ago. what makes me so made is, i live in a state that does not require helmets for motorcycle riders but i am forced to wear a seat belt for my safety. when this state is concerned about peoples safety and not funding for having a seat belt law, then they will have a helmet law.

[VINMAN]

You have a good point. I know we get stuck with the bill in the long run. But, my biggest thing is, the fact that its only a money making scheme. Not a true punishment. The fact that in most areas it is only a monetary fine, and no point violation substantiates that. Municipalities in my area openly admit that when they set up seatbelt checkpoints, it brings in huge amounts of money for the town.

[sailchef]

If it weren't mandatory to wear seatbelts I would have probably never started wearing them.

I'm glad I do.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Thank you for your opinion Comrade Oz.

I hit a steel utility pole head on in a 1987 VW Rabbit at 50mph once upon a time. All 3 occupants walked away with minor injuries.

Pole. 40mph. Race prepped rally car.

Both crew badly hurt. Driver two broken legs and internal injuries.

I cant believe Porsche guys are even having this dicussion.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

You have a good point. I know we get stuck with the bill in the long run. But, my biggest thing is, the fact that its only a money making scheme. Not a true punishment. The fact that in most areas it is only a monetary fine, and no point violation substantiates that. Municipalities in my area openly admit that when they set up seatbelt checkpoints, it brings in huge amounts of money for the town.

Im no fan of nanny state road laws. In fact dont start me. Lets face it- if we were really serious, there would be no inertia reel belts, it would be harness and helmet. The fine is a nuisnace. Its is about changing behaviour, attitude and habits. Where I live belts have been law for as long as Ive been driving. We never had them as kids. But kids now wont move in a car without a belt. They will never drive a car without one.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

Well, there ya go.

Lots of good reasons to strap in regardless of whether you agree with a law telling you to do so, Bill.

Whaddaya say... try it for a week?

I'd hate for you to have to change your sig line to ""Lo and behold, i am the lone veggie in a sea of beavers."

I like having you around as one of my BFF's, too.

I remain unmoved.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by OZCarrera3

Ahhhh, that explains it.

You're lucky it wasn't something more substantial.

More substantial? Like what? An aircraft carrier? Steel utility poles -do not move- on impact.

Originally Posted by stuartj

You. Mr Risk Averse. Have you ever been in a car crash?
If you dont wear a belt in moving vehicle, you are an idiot. You are actually beyond idiot.

I am not risk averse, just enigmatic.

I have been in accidents (last one about 20 years ago). I have never expired because it's not my time to go. Simple as that.

Several generations of Americans survived just fine without any seatbelts, i'm not exactly worried. In fact, i'm not worried in the slightest.

Now if you want to talk stupid, let's talk about driving around a track at 150+mph, or driving a motorcycle, or skydiving, etc.

[turbocarrera]

3 unbelted people in a '87 Rabbit hit an immovable object at 50mph and not a single injury?

You, sir, are completely full of shyt.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by turbocarrera

3 unbelted people in a '87 Rabbit hit in immovable object at 50mph and not a single injury?

You, sir, are completely full of *****.

I was there, you were not.

Minor cuts and bruises except for me. I needed some stitches. Still have the scar. I remember telling the cop to make me walk a straight line right then and there with blood flowing into my eyes because he implied i was drunk.

Originally Posted by stuartj

LOL. Yeah, but dont visit sth East Asia (coups, terrorists, dragons) and dont go in the ocean (sharks).

You are a crackup Snipper.

No, i would not visit the communist unexpended ordnance capital of the world, no, i don't think it wise in the slightest to visit 3rd world countries with ongoing insurgencies and great political unrest, no i don't like the ocean (which goes beyond sharks, but they're reason enough for me, thanks.)

Originally Posted by T77911S

wow, i cant believe it. someone else that hates to be forced to wear a seat belt. i got a ticket not long ago. what makes me so made is, i live in a state that does not require helmets for motorcycle riders but i am forced to wear a seat belt for my safety. when this state is concerned about peoples safety and not funding for having a seat belt law, then they will have a helmet law.

Pa is the same way, it's totally retarded.

I'll do what i want to do, anyone that doesn't like it, too bad for you. If i end up brain dead in a coma, feel free to tell me "I told you so."

[andrew15]

A recent parts car I picked up had the windshield actually pushed out from the impact of the drivers head hitting the glass. The windshield had a huge star impact and the steering wheel was pretty bent up from colliding with the drivers sternum.

Given the choice of wearing a seat belt or smashing my head into glass while beating the steering wheel into modern art with my chest, I'll choose belt.

The irony is that in the glove compartment was a court date for 'repeated' seat belt violations

AM

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Pole. 40mph. Race prepped rally car.

Both crew badly hurt. Driver two broken legs and internal injuries.

I cant believe Porsche guys are even having this dicussion.

1960s technology. No crumple zones. Bad luck.

All combined.

Originally Posted by andrew15

Given the choice of wearing a seat belt or smashing my head into glass while beating the steering wheel into modern art with my chest, I'll choose belt.
AM

False choice. I have not been in an accident in approx 20 years. For me the choice has been=

A) nothing happens with a seatbelt on.
B)Nothing happens without a seatbelt on.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by cgarr

I only have lap belts in my old VW....

None of mine even had lap belts, with the exception of my '68 single cab. I've added lap belts to all of them except the '52 bug.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

1960s technology. No crumple zones. Bad luck.

If you're not wearing a belt, you are a crumple zone.

Is there a belief that sheet metal will bend and absorb energy before your unbelted face carves through the windshield? Well, maybe for a split second.

Live long and prosper.

Sherwood

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Moses

Slippery slope. "I'm sorry Mr. Smith, we're not approving your coronary bypass. It seems you have been eating too much red meat."

You can't pass laws requiring people to do things because they are "good" for them. Yep, your insurance premiums are a little higher because I eat cheeseburgers. Get over it.

People forget that every single law ever enacted involves a loss of freedom. If you want to outlaw every unsafe activity we can start with cigarettes, booze, hang gliding, motorcycling, skydiving and driving rear engined sports cars.

We need to allow people to ride without helmets or seat belts because the freedom it represents is far more precious than the modest cost to society.

Interesting argument.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Moses

Slippery slope. "I'm sorry Mr. Smith, we're not approving your coronary bypass. It seems you have been eating too much red meat."

You can't pass laws requiring people to do things because they are "good" for them. Yep, your insurance premiums are a little higher because I eat cheeseburgers. Get over it.

People forget that every single law ever enacted involves a loss of freedom. If you want to outlaw every unsafe activity we can start with cigarettes, booze, hang gliding, motorcycling, skydiving and driving rear engined sports cars.

We need to allow people to ride without helmets or seat belts because the freedom it represents is far more precious than the modest cost to society.

Exactly.

[Cornpanzer]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

No, i don't worry about dying, it's beyond my control.

I could get hit by a plane as i sit here typing on PPOT, when death comes, it comes.

That is ignorant.

Initiate rant!

Lets try an experiment. Stop what you are doing, go to the nearest tall building and jump off. If 'death is beyond your control', then you will live to tell us how it feels to fly. If however you die, would your family say it 'was your time' or perhaps that you were "an idiot to jump off a building."

Do you let your children ride thier bike in a busy street? No? Well why not...if its not thier time, its not thier time...right?

Do you try to eat well? Why bother if your theory is true that you wont die until its your 'time'. Eat up! While your at it, drink some poison. Only way it will hurt you is if by some odd coincidence your "time' is up at the exact same time you drink the poison.

The reason you survived your crash unbelted is because you were lucky...and thats it. It had nothing to do with some predetermined expiration date. Perhaps if you had hit it at a slightly different angle, you wouldnt be here today. PROBABLY, if you had been belted, you would not have needed stitches and wouldnt have that scar to show for your recklesness.

The fact is that every one of us does something every hour of every day with the goal of preserving our life. We try to eat right, we avoid risky behavior. We dont stick things in the light socket or teeter on a three-legged stool to change a light bulb at the top of a stairwell. You do it just like I do it and each of these tiny inconsequential decisions proves that we know better than believe "when death comes, it comes".

The fact is, you dont wear your seat belt because you dont want to. You dont like being told what to do just like when we were kids and we didnt want to brush our teeth. Sure, brushing our teeth was simple, quick and painless, but children dont think that way. they would rather fight it...much like you fight the simple act of fastening something that could very well save your life.

Will you die in a car crash...statistically, probably not. But what if next time the impact breaks your legs so that you cant walk. Will you be able to work and support your family? What if you hit your head like someone I knew and this time instead of a cut, you get some form of brain damage like he did. Would be a shame for the family to have to feed you and change your diapers. Thats what happened to Kevin. He was in a big safe Chevy Duelly. Got T-boned and flew to the opposite side of the truck and bashed his head in. It wasnt "his time" so instead of death, his family had to deal with him being a vegetable.

I am sure this wont change your mind, but perhaps next time you wont talk about predetermined fate when you have an audiance of thinking people.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Moses

Slippery slope. "I'm sorry Mr. Smith, we're not approving your coronary bypass. It seems you have been eating too much red meat."

You can't pass laws requiring people to do things because they are "good" for them. Yep, your insurance premiums are a little higher because I eat cheeseburgers. Get over it.

People forget that every single law ever enacted involves a loss of freedom. If you want to outlaw every unsafe activity we can start with cigarettes, booze, hang gliding, motorcycling, skydiving and driving rear engined sports cars.

We need to allow people to ride without helmets or seat belts because the freedom it represents is far more precious than the modest cost to society.

just wait until we have socialized medicine. then wait until it is nearing bankruptcy....