Finally, no more tickets for not wearing a seatbelt!

[island911]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Cabin looks relatively intact. If the occupants survived, the roll cage did the job.

Does anyone advocate not having a roll bar/cage when racing, other than the no-belt rule?

On one occasion, Jay Leno was describing the features of an old Buick (circa '50) in his collection to an interviewer. He mentioned the advantage of having a painted metal dashboard. It went something like, "Yeah, the metal dash makes it easier to hose off the blood after your face slams into it."

To be fair, while most studies show a decided decrease in automotive fatalities using belts, there are also studies that show the death rate doesn't change after mandatory seat belt legislation was passed.

http://www.geocities.com/galwaycyclist/info/seatbelts.html

Sherwood

Excellent post.

And, brings up a Q. If any of you seatbelt zealots were offered a chance to drive one of Leno's old (painted dash) vintage cars, would you decline, thinking 'no way could I change my driving habits to accommodate not having seatbelts." ?

Well?

Is Leno being "A danger to others" when he pull one of those oldies out to the public road?

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by island911

Excellent post.

And, brings up a Q. If any of you seatbelt zealots were offered a chance to drive one of Leno's old (painted dash) vintage cars, would you decline, thinking 'no way could I change my driving habits to accommodate not having seatbelts." ?

Well?

Is Leno being "A danger to others" when he pull one of those oldies out to the public road?

I dont rate the “danger to others” argument (unless in reference to unrestrained passengers in a car). Certainly I buy the “cost to others” argument.

Read an interesting argument in regard to Historics- specifically the Goodwood Festival of Speed, where the argument was made (which I don’t agree with) that it was time to put some the old ladies into retirement. That a car with chassis built 80 or 90 years ago- while they still can pull 100mph, doesn’t mean they should pull 100mph. The a car capable of such speeds while offering the driver no protections has had its day. Borrowed this shot from the “Motivaional Poster” thread.



In regard to your question- I would, and do, certainly drive such cars. I dont think their presence on the road today as speciality vehicles is of any significnace to road safety. But I wouldnt use one as a daily driver. Would you transport your family in one, Island? What do you think would be the nett effect on the road toll if, say, 1950s cars were suddenly the norm on our roads today?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by island911

Excellent post.

And, brings up a Q. If any of you seatbelt zealots were offered a chance to drive one of Leno's old (painted dash) vintage cars, would you decline, thinking 'no way could I change my driving habits to accommodate not having seatbelts." ?

Well?

Is Leno being "A danger to others" when he pull one of those oldies out to the public road?

Completely irrelevant.

I don't drive my 55' Benz every day so the fact that it lacks seatbelts is very apparent.

I drive it way differently then I drive a modern car.

The car also attracts attention and people give it a wide birth.

[island911]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Completely irrelevant.

I don't drive my 55' Benz every day so the fact that it lacks seatbelts is very apparent.

I drive it way differently then I drive a modern car.

The car also attracts attention and people give it a wide birth.

Well there ya go. You've made my point. Thanks.

Now, get back to your modern (seatbelted) texting while driving - for safety sake.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by island911

Well there ya go. You've made my point. Thanks.

Now, get back to your modern (seatbelted) texting while driving - for safety sake.

how did Stomachmonkey make your point?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by stuartj

how did Stomachmonkey make your point?

He's saying that I agree that you can consciously alter your driving habits.

True, within the context of occasionally driving an older vehicle with big slippery seats, antiquated brakes, no power steering etc....

All of those things will make you hyper aware and will make you change your driving style, regardless of whether or not your were wearing a seatbelt.

It's a pointless point because 99% of people out there are not driving a 54 year old car on a daily basis.

We are talking about norms here Glen, not exceptions.

[stuartj]

Oh. Really?

OK Island. If that is the case- the companion hypothetical is this. Would be happy to send your wife and kids off each day in this, knowing that your wife is going drive this car accordingly?

[GH85Carrera]

I have always wondered if the driver was in a glass bubble with sharp steel spikes pointed at his body how much different would people drive. I suspect everyone would drive at 10 to 20 MPH and keep clear of any conflict. Tailgating would disappear. That is not a good solution to the problem of bad driving but it shows what safety does for us.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

You know, I've thought this over. American drivers are so good, always in control, always paying attention, always, courteous, never talking on cell phones, applying make-up, eating tacos, reading the paper... that loss of control by not being belted in just would never happen.

American drivers are just that good due to our excellent driver education system.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

You know, I've thought this over. American drivers are so good, always in control, always paying attention, always, courteous, never talking on cell phones, applying make-up, eating tacos, reading the paper... that loss of control by not being belted in just would never happen.

American drivers are just that good due to our excellent driver education system.

LOL. I think you forgot to post in green. Folks will think that you're cereal.

[island911]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I have always wondered if the driver was in a glass bubble with sharp steel spikes pointed at his body how much different would people drive. I suspect everyone would drive at 10 to 20 MPH and keep clear of any conflict. Tailgating would disappear. That is not a good solution to the problem of bad driving but it shows what safety does for us.

Exactly!

The subtext of all of this safety gear is "you are taken care of."

Feel the need to tailgate? -no problem, you are taken care of by your ABS.

Feel the need to text? no problem, you are taken care of by your Belts and high tech bags.


When you give people a (perceived) safer environment, people will take more risks. Want an example? - look to the housing market. (as so many pushed on with a perceived reality of "Real estate never looses it's value.)

We all make our assessments of danger. Some of you clearly believe that you cannot trust yourselves with that type of decision making. (and need a nanny law)

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by island911

...We all make our assessments of danger. Some of you clearly believe that you cannot trust yourselves with that type of decision making. (and need a nanny law)

Oh I trust myself alright. It's all the other friggin a holes that try to kill me on a daily basis that I don't trust.

Lived in NY for a long time. They enacted a cell phone ban. Pissed me off. What's next, a ban on smoking while driving? But after some time I realized it made a huge difference.

Fast forward, I move to TX where there is no cell phone ban and I wanna shoot about 7 out of every 10 people on the road. It's absolutely incredulous how many people drive with a cell phone stuck to their ear. And you can spot em from a mile away.

They drift all over the road, drive at a snails pace, don't signal because their hands are full, stop short, but you get the point.

Do I like that cell phone usage needs to be legislated?

Absolutely not but the simple fact is most people are complete dumb asses and should not even have a license.

I'd love to see stricter testing like they have in Germany.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by island911

Exactly!

The subtext of all of this safety gear is "you are taken care of."

No. you are wrong.

[vash]

holy.............! wasnt this thread about a t-shirt?

[island911]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Oh I trust myself alright. It's all the other friggin a holes that try to kill me on a daily basis that I don't trust.....

I hear that. My wife has been hit 2x (while stopped) by freaking Tahoe drivers. I've got to say, I would not have been one bit upset if those jokers hadn't been wearing their belts. Those POS Tahoes have crap for brakes, but at least the drivers feel un-stoppable behind their belts, bags, and mass.

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

No. you are wrong.

Oh. Okay. (way to bolster your position there, Shaun.)