Finally, no more tickets for not wearing a seatbelt!

[Rikao4]

call it draw of the belt..

my unit lost one guy in the box...
UH-60..all except the medic were buckled in..
he was thrown out...and struck something that didn't move...

C-130 crash..
picked up an IP (inst. pilot)
he was giving check-ride to NG guys doing low level drops..
a load-master was doing some training with the crew..
IP not tethered or buckled in...same for the load-master..Aircraft struck ground and cracked open..
IP and load-master thrown clear..(bruised & scratched) landed in the bushes..
the other 5..died

Rika

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Moses

We need to allow people to ride without helmets or seat belts because the freedom it represents is far more precious than the modest cost to society.

As I said earlier, it's too bad Government supersedes natural selection.

but the truth is not buckling up (helmets don't enter here) increases the risk to drivers around you. You are not free to yell "Fire!" in a movie theater and you are not free to drive intoxicated.

Could the argument be made that buckling up decreases driver response rate and increases the quality of the response to a variety of driving situations?

In a related, personal experience, the day I installed a fixed back bucket(s) in my daily driver 84, I instantly became a better driver. it was simple, I was connected much better to the car and therefore in much better control. I think the same could be said about seat belts for the average driver.

Can you quantify the effect? Maybe with test dummies, but it boils down to common sense experience: yes, you are in better control of the vehicle when buckled in.

Should Freedom trump Common Sense when other peoples' lives are at risk?

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

More substantial? Like what? An aircraft carrier? Steel utility poles -do not move- on impact.


I am not risk averse, just enigmatic.

I have been in accidents (last one about 20 years ago). I have never expired because it's not my time to go. Simple as that.

Several generations of Americans survived just fine without any seatbelts, i'm not exactly worried. In fact, i'm not worried in the slightest.

Now if you want to talk stupid, let's talk about driving around a track at 150+mph, or driving a motorcycle, or skydiving, etc.

Enemamatic, perhaps.

"I have been in accidents (last one about 20 years ago). I have never expired because it's not my time to go. Simple as that." So your safety behind the wheel is the hands of god or someother mystical force in the universe. I forgot you are a god botherer. Wrong forum. Try PARF, the faithful love it.

"Several generations of Americans survived just fine without any seatbelts, i'm not exactly worried. In fact, i'm not worried in the slightest. " Except for the millions killed and maimed in car crashes.

''Now if you want to talk stupid, let's talk about driving around a track at 150+mph, or driving a motorcycle, or skydiving, etc"

Irrelevent.

I watched the video in your link. Car sounds great, and everyone loves 80s metal. I hope the lady was impressed. Do you know what an apex is?

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by turbocarrera

3 unbelted people in a '87 Rabbit hit an immovable object at 50mph and not a single injury?

You, sir, are completely full of shyt.

Yes.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

... the truth is not buckling up (helmets don't enter here) increases the risk to drivers around you.

Show me the data.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Moses

Show me the data.

data: the currency of Bureaucrats.

You don't need data to answer the question: Do you have more control over a vehicle buckled in than you do not buckled in.

Experience says yes, you do have more control.

Common sense agrees with Experience.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by Moses

Show me the data.

yes Id like to see support for that too. But its certainly supportable that unrestrained objects in cars- like people - are dangerous to other occupants in a collision.

Persoanlly, I wish there was an way on inertia reel belts to switch them to "lock" them like old fashioned belts. I normally drive with belt locked.

BTW- tip for guys on track days (or on mountain roads). Push the seat back a notch or two. Lock the belt. Pull the seat in. (Much easier with electric seats)

[OZCarrera3]

This thread is really about little boys who don't like to be told not to run with scissors.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I have not been in an accident in approx 20 years. For me the choice has been=

A) nothing happens with a seatbelt on.
B)Nothing happens without a seatbelt on.

I thought you were a smart guy. Im sorry to say that is the logic of a fool.

Do you understand probability and independant events? If you flip a coin 100 times, the probabilty of it coming down "heads" is exactly the same each time. Every time you in a car, it is an indepedant event.

Consider somethng else. You may not crash your car. Years ago, my neighbour was killed while stopped at red light, minding his own business, when a car came -somehow- from the other side of the road and hit him head on.

Two things that I was reminded of in the crash I was in in February. One is the magnitude of the violence that is unleashed. They are called the Laws of Physics for a reason. The second is that once it starts, it is too late to worry about your safety preperations.

[island911]

Originally Posted by OZCarrera3

This thread is really about little boys who don't like to be told not to run with scissors.

Wow, and here I thought it was a bunch of righteous nannies upset that they were being talked back to.

[stuartj]

So what about children? Does the State have the right to pass laws requiring drivers to properly restrain children in cars? Or does the right of choice extend to to the right to choose on behalf of minors?

[nynor]

Originally Posted by island911

Wow, and here I thought it was a bunch of righteous nannies upset that they were being talked back to.

some, perhaps.

as for myself, i am not righteous, and i don't deny a person their right to die or to be mentally disabled.

speaking from experience, wearing the seatbelt, that simple piece of cloth that inhibits nothing, is much better than not wearing it.

i've had experience with the seatbelt (no problem, i walked away) and without (the car was '64, no seatbelts and got messed up, broke my cheekbone, among other problems).

i don't care if folks wear their seatbelts. especially if they don't wear their seatbelts and they haven't bred children.

[stomachmonkey]

friggin spammers

reported

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by stuartj

Race prepped rally car.

I think you should've invested in a better roll cage........

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

I think you should've invested in a better roll cage........

Not my car. This Mustang hit a concrete and steel pole in tarmac rally.

I dont how good the cage in that car was, but it had to meet engineering compliance and competition rules for tarmac rally.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Live long and prosper.

So far so good.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by stuartj

I thought you were a smart guy. Im sorry to say that is the logic of a fool.

Do you understand probability and independant events? If you flip a coin 100 times, the probabilty of it coming down "heads" is exactly the same each time. Every time you in a car, it is an indepedant event.

Consider somethng else. You may not crash your car. Years ago, my neighbour was killed while stopped at red light, minding his own business, when a car came -somehow- from the other side of the road and hit him head on.

Two things that I was reminded of in the crash I was in in February. One is the magnitude of the violence that is unleashed. They are called the Laws of Physics for a reason. The second is that once it starts, it is too late to worry about your safety preperations.

You didn't really think i was a smart guy, come now.

If i die in a car crash, i die in a car crash. Gotta die from something. I'd far, far, far perfer instant death from a severe crash to going out with cancer, or drowning, or burning to death, etc, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by stuartj

So what about children? Does the State have the right to pass laws requiring drivers to properly restrain children in cars? Or does the right of choice extend to to the right to choose on behalf of minors?

I rode in the back of the parents station wagon about a thousand times growing up.

I see nothing wrong with that, then or now. Personal choice...what a wonderful thing.

Originally Posted by OZCarrera3

This thread is really about little boys who don't like to be told not to run with scissors.

So was the American Revolution.

[Sonic dB]

Originally Posted by the

I was getting so tired of getting tickets for not wearing a seatbelt, I finally came up with a solution. Now I can drive with complete freedom, no more tickets.

That will look great as you are lying in pieces next to the curb waiting for the ambulance to pick you up.

Did they sell you are Car Pool Dummy with that T-Shirt?

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

You didn't really think i was a smart guy, come now.

If i die in a car crash, i die in a car crash. Gotta die from something. I'd far, far, far perfer instant death from a severe crash to going out with cancer, or drowning, or burning to death, etc, etc, etc.


I rode in the back of the parents station wagon about a thousand times growing up.

I see nothing wrong with that, then or now. Personal choice...what a wonderful thing.


So was the American Revolution.

As did I Snipper, as did I. 5 kids asleep in the flat of the sation wagon. It was fun.

The road toll in my State one year when I was a kid was 1084. I remember because the newspaper ran a big campaign “Declare War on 1084”

Population of state has doubled since then, number of cars is much greater, number of person miles trvaelled is massively greater. Road toll last year was 290 or something.

I see you are beyond argument on this. You are indeed an enigma. Driving a motor car is the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis. You demand your right to drive belt-less in an environment where someone can hit you in circumstances totally beyod your control. Happens every day in your city and in mine. We could go to any hospital in any day and find seriously hurt people from car crashes. Yet- you wouldn’t travel to Asia because its dangerous.

I was telling the SO about you actually as we sat down to a fabulous feed of seafood in the nightmarket in Huah Hin, Thailand a week or two back. She thought you were very funny. It fascinating how people assess risk.

Wasnt the American Revolution over taxation without represenation? I dont recall scissors being a consideration.

edit- btw, even though you and i disagree on well everything, I do think you are a smart guy. There may be hope fo you.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

I think you should've invested in a better roll cage........

Cabin looks relatively intact. If the occupants survived, the roll cage did the job.

Does anyone advocate not having a roll bar/cage when racing, other than the no-belt rule?

On one occasion, Jay Leno was describing the features of an old Buick (circa '50) in his collection to an interviewer. He mentioned the advantage of having a painted metal dashboard. It went something like, "Yeah, the metal dash makes it easier to hose off the blood after your face slams into it."

To be fair, while most studies show a decided decrease in automotive fatalities using belts, there are also studies that show the death rate doesn't change after mandatory seat belt legislation was passed.

http://www.geocities.com/galwaycyclist/info/seatbelts.html

Sherwood