What does it take to get a Pilot License?

[cgarr]

Bill, the only plane I have left is this one that I built, its only a single place. Where is Michigan are you? Always looking for places to fly! One option is to build you own plane, thats what I did after I got my private. There are a lot of very nice kits out there and even more projects that others have started and never finished at great prices.

This was taken this last winter.

[tswaney]

This may be a bit irrelevant due to my location, but I am paying $68 (taxes included) per hour for my flight instruction. That is a C-150 (wet) and instructor. It would be the same price to just rent the 150 (wet), meaning my instructor isn't technically charging for his time!? There is no running clock during preflight discussions, post flight analysis...

Instructor is soon going to switch to a Piper Cherokee Warrior (I think) as his training/renting aircraft, so his rates will go up to ~$80/hr. But no complaints from me.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Tom, that's a steal! Even through my company flying club, I'd be looking at $50/tach hour (wet) for a Sundowner + $35/hr for an instructor. Of course, I can also rent an A36 Bonanza starting at $77/tach hour.

[widgeon13]

If you really want to have a pilot's certificate then go ahead and get it. You can always check out later on if you go for a dry spell, cost obviously will range from what others have mentioned but my guess these days is you are looking at 6 - 8000 dollars to finish your private unless you have a friend who is a CFI w/ a plane. Clubs are economical but if that is not possible then budget somewhere in the $5000 per year range depending on what you rent and where you go. My recommendation is get your license but don't think you can be proficient flying 10 - 20 hours a year particularly if you are flying a different plane all the time.

By all means get you license but also plan to fly at least 30 - 40 hours per year. Buying a plane is a new ball game. Plan on approx $10,000/year for insurance, annual, reserve for unforseen maint issue and set aside funds for an ovehaul when the time comes. Most will probably say my figures are high but I don't cut corners on anything when it comes to my aircraft and maint. If it's not right, it gets fixed properly.

I don't want anything not working when I'm at 5500 ft over the Adirondacks with nothing but trees and lakes below for as far as the eye can see.

Now someone here will say put my plane on floats, that's only going to cost an additional $30,000 or so for straight floats and $45,000 or so for amphibs and yes I have a seaplane rating but that's going to cost you $1500 after you private. Then factor in insurance for a float plane. Until you get 50 hours in your own plane plan on 5 - 6000 bucks for hull insurance on a single engine plane with replacement cost of approx $150,000.

It's great fun, very rewarding and a good challenge. As long as you are getting a private, don't cut cost, get a tailwheel sign off as well. It will pay dividends in the long run.

[nynor]

it takes a lot of cash and a lot of time. if you are going to do it, you should set aside a couple of months and get it done as quickly as possible. if you drag it out, you forget stuff and it ends up costing you more.

i have all my hours, but still need to take the exams. at this point, i'd have to fly a minimum of ten more hours, do all my studying again, etc., just to have a hope of passing the practical and written.

i ran out of money at the end and now it is going to cost me another grand, maybe two, to get back up to speed.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by RZG77

Im a member of a flying club, seems to be some good deals out there on joining them, there interested in keeping you flying so there keeping the prices down. Im paying $500 a year, the first 10 hours I only pay for fuel, after that I pay $25 an hour plus fuel. I fly out of Napoleon Ohio (Henry County).

Henry County? That is just a stones throw from my grass strip (Eickmeier on the Detroit sectional). At this point I don't know who you are, but I bet we have met before. Next time you are out flying, stop in and say hello. I am out in the shop/hangar most evenings and weekends.

[Tim Hancock]

Unless the regs have changed, one must have 40 hrs time minimum to get your license. 20 hours of dual and 20 hours solo. I got mine in about 46 hrs IIRC. At that time, I think the national average was in the 70's hourwise. I flew several times a week and knocked it out for cheap. The young "hours building" instructor did not really charge me that often for times we talked in his office (AKA groundschool) so I had something like 46 hours @ about $45/hr C-150 aircraft rental and maybe about 25 hrs of instructor time @ $20/hr.

I probably paid a couple hundred for test fees and medical and I borrowed the Gleim books and King private pilot tapes from a friend. I was under $3000 total.

This is still a feasible way to go at small local airports around here although the hourly rates are probably more like $60/$27.

I am quite confident it can still be done for around 4K provided you find the right FBO and you have the ability to learn the landing part early on thus allowing you to advance to the solo stage early. Drag it out 1-2 years and you could easily double your costs.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Embraer

I fly jets for a living....wish I could afford to buy a 172

You can! Find some guys and partner together and buy a plane. My first plane, a C-150 was purchased with a friend of mine. We used it to get our private licenses and built time, then upgraded to a Cardinal (C-177) and flew it for years.

I then went to school to get my A&P and moved into the cockpit full time. Right now there are some guys on my field who have a Bonanza partnership that costs only $5000 to buy in, then whatever it costs to fly per hour.

Also agree that learning while you are in school is one of the cheapest ways to learn. Thats how I started way back in 1973 or so.

Joe A

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Under Part 61 it's still 40 hours minimum for a PP. National average is something like 65 hours these days (so I've been told). When people "off the street" ask how much it costs out here I usually say expect to pay around $15k before all is said and done.

Try this test:

Reach into your wallet and extract one crisp new $100 bill. Admire it briefly. The clean sharpness of the edges, the fine details in Benjamin Franklin's face, the faintly sweet smell of the ink and paper.

Light it.

Repeat until you can do it without flinching. When you do, you're ready to start flying.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Under Part 61 it's still 40 hours minimum for a PP. National average is something like 65 hours these days (so I've been told). When people "off the street" ask how much it costs out here I usually say expect to pay around $15k before all is said and done.

Try this test:

Reach into your wallet and extract one crisp new $100 bill. Admire it briefly. The clean sharpness of the edges, the fine details in Benjamin Franklin's face, the faintly sweet smell of the ink and paper.

Light it.

Repeat until you can do it without flinching. When you do, you're ready to start flying.

sounds about right.

[widgeon13]

Just think, it was only 45 years ago you could have joined the military and gotten your ticket for $0, it might have cost you your life but you could fly.

So $15,000 to me seems like spit in the ocean.

Cheaper than most annual memberships at a good country club, at least a few years ago.

I'm not trying to be argumentative just putting it in perspective.

[Joeaksa]

You can do it cheaper but have to be dedicated about it.

Go out, find a good small Cessna or Piper and buy it. I have seen them go for not that much money and if you take good care of it you can sell it for what you paid for it in 2-3 years, having flown for free.

Find a good instructor and go flying. Fly at least 2-3 times a week. Study the books while you are at home and get the written passed with at least an 85% score.

You can then take your written and flight exam and hopefully you will have around 50 hours total time. Then keep flying the airplane until you want to upgrade and enjoy.

What screws you is flying once or twice a month. You spend every lesson re-learning what you learned the last time, and waste a lot of valuable flight time. Flight time is money so its up to you.

[MT930]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

You can do it cheaper but have to be dedicated about it.

Go out, find a good small Cessna or Piper and buy it. I have seen them go for not that much money and if you take good care of it you can sell it for what you paid for it in 2-3 years, having flown for free.

Find a good instructor and go flying. Fly at least 2-3 times a week. Study the books while you are at home and get the written passed with at least an 85% score.

You can then take your written and flight exam and hopefully you will have around 50 hours total time. Then keep flying the airplane until you want to upgrade and enjoy.

What screws you is flying once or twice a month. You spend every lesson re-learning what you learned the last time, and waste a lot of valuable flight time. Flight time is money so its up to you.

This is excellent advise !!!

Find an older experienced CFI that will be around during your entire training. You do not want to get to know new flight instructors during the training. 2+ flights per week is the key. Dedication is the key, get in
and hit it hard. It's a very rewarding experience.

During the late 80's and early 90's I was a CFI and CFII both in a university setting and at a private airport, fixed based operation. I found that the middle aged students of 35+ years old would take a little longer to get finished up, say 5-8 Hours more that the 18-21 year old students. I have heard this from other instructors.

This will be a real milestone in your life. The instrument license was the most challenging thing I have ever done.

Good Luck & Have fun !

[Joeaksa]

Forgot, what MT says is spot on. A younger instructor is usually trying to build time for the airlines or bigger airplanes. An older CFI that will stick with you through-out your training is very important and makes a big difference in how you do in the exam and flying later on in life.

I still remember things that my old instructors taught me. Course one flew Spitfires in the Battle of Britain so he had a bit of experience!

[wcc]

WOW! I stepped away for a day and there's a lot of responses. I'll have to got back and catch up!

Originally Posted by cgarr

Bill, the only plane I have left is this one that I built, its only a single place. Where is Michigan are you? Always looking for places to fly! One option is to build you own plane, thats what I did after I got my private. There are a lot of very nice kits out there and even more projects that others have started and never finished at great prices.

This was taken this last winter.

I did catch this one though. I'm over here in Lansing. There's the Lansing Airport of course, Grand Ledge and Mason airports are the small local ones. If you plan on coming over this way anytime let me know I'd gladly meet up with you. Also, there's a West MI PCA Gimmick Rally this weekend. The wife and I are thinking of attending depending how much work I get done. Will you be there?

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Under Part 61 it's still 40 hours minimum for a PP. National average is something like 65 hours these days (so I've been told). When people "off the street" ask how much it costs out here I usually say expect to pay around $15k before all is said and done.

Try this test:

Reach into your wallet and extract one crisp new $100 bill. Admire it briefly. The clean sharpness of the edges, the fine details in Benjamin Franklin's face, the faintly sweet smell of the ink and paper.

Light it.

Repeat until you can do it without flinching. When you do, you're ready to start flying.

15K????

Not around here....unless you are an uncoordinated dufus that needs 100 hrs and only feels "safe" in a brand new Cessna. Getting the license is not a big deal if done quickly and you have it for life (just need a biennial flight review and medical every couple years to get current, but you are correct about lighting the hundred dollar bills if you want to own your own "nice" airplane. (unless you get lucky like me and get an AP/IA rating so you can do all of your own work )

Joe's point about buying a small trainer could work under the correct circumstances, but airplane ownership is getting more costly with fewer decent yet cheap old airplanes to be had. Hell, I was shocked the last time I looked at Trade A Plane.... people are asking some serious coin for T-crafts, Champs etc compared to just ten years ago. Many of the "cheap" Cessna 150's are priced that way for a reason .....usually a high time engine and horrible paint and avionics that will cost about what the initial purchase price for the whole airplane was. Unfortunately that still somewhat ratty C-150 will not be worth double after fixing a few things and overhauling the engine. Airplanes have always been money pits in general, but it is getting even more so as time marches on IMO. Someone like Joe or myself with all our ties and years of experience might still score a deal once in awhile, but a newbie is much more likely to end up behind the power curve.

That said, if you have the money to "burn" as Jeff puts it, flying is a great hobby, just don't convince yourself that you will get all your money back that you initially invest should you decide to sell.

[cgarr]

Originally Posted by wcc

Also, there's a West MI PCA Gimmick Rally this weekend. The wife and I are thinking of attending depending how much work I get done. Will you be there?

I cant make the rally and I had to order some new bungee cord for my landing gear, checking it out this evening and found some bad spots in it, will tie wrap it up for now, I will plan a dash over to lansing and let you know when...Gas is cheap so it will be soon..

[wcc]

Originally Posted by cgarr

I cant make the rally and I had to order some new bungee cord for my landing gear, checking it out this evening and found some bad spots in it, will tie wrap it up for now, I will plan a dash over to lansing and let you know when...Gas is cheap so it will be soon..

Craig - I sent you a PM with my info....

[RZG77]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

Henry County? That is just a stones throw from my grass strip (Eickmeier on the Detroit sectional). At this point I don't know who you are, but I bet we have met before. Next time you are out flying, stop in and say hello. I am out in the shop/hangar most evenings and weekends.

I dont think that i have met you, but i have done a few touch and go's at your strip with a flight instructer. (Bill B.) I worked for him at Henry County for a few years. I was flying his 150 aerobat. i lived next to cambells for a few years but now in Millbury, about 5 miles from Metcalf. Im out in the area every so often to fly the 172.