Tour de Lance '09

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Are you seen as being a traitor (which is a harsh assesment, btw) for living in France, or for giving the impression that you hate the US, while living in France? Genuine question, because I haven't really followed the apparent feud between you and Joe.

A lot of our disagreement with this person is that everything in frogville is always better than here in America, but he says that he lives in America half of the year. So this means that he comes over here and enjoys the "good life" in the states then craps on America again and again once he is back in france.

Only place I really enjoy there is the South of the country because you are treated nicely there. Every time I go to Paris its a hassle and if you are not Parisian they do not like you. Much the same in other parts of the country. They just love it when I land and they try to force me to get a french visa to be legal in the country and I show them my unlimited German residence visa. They hate Americans yet were very happy to have the Germans thrown out of their country, twice, yet their memory is very short when it comes to this subject.

As far as my supposed hiding as Herr frog says, its not hiding at all, I just do not need to put up with his drivel and there are several people on this forum who have put him on the ban status. Am not the only one, just the one who will not put up with his BS when he starts thumping his chest again and again. I have several good friends from france but they are not jerks like this person is towards America.

[dd74]

Gawd! Give it a rest, Joe! We get you don't like France, the French or RPKESQ.

How about bringing up something interesting about the TDF?

I'll start: Andy Schleck is the darkhorse to take polkadot. Not sure Cadel will even crack 5th. (he fell off the radar for a while) . Vandevelde will podium if Lance brings yellow to Paris. It's an American thing: the Yanks are very strong this year.

[Joeaksa]

DD, so its ok for 450 to ask about is, and RE>VVER)ASE}R+ED to reply to it several times but I have to shut up about it?

Sorry, not going to happen.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Nothing significant is going to happen until Stage 13 (Vittel-Colmar). That's when the race goes back in the mountains for real, not just little rollers and foothills. For the next couple of stages the GC big boys will likely just sit in the peloton and not respond to any sort of attack unless someone who has potential GC implications gets away in a break (a Menchov or Sastre, like that's going to happen...) So basically it's "sit and wait" until this weekend. That's when things start to get good.

Contadore is a great rider, but I think Lance is just going to try and grind him down. The TdF is a LONG event and one stage, two stages or even a few stages do not a champion make.

Personally I think the real Astana team leader (and TdF winner) will be decided on the slopes of Mont Ventoux - the day before the "ceremonial" stage back to Paris. Very unlikely either Contadore or Armstrong will crack before then. One or the other might get a few seconds in the other here or there, but I think it's going to be very close until the final stage, then a slug-fest up the mountain. It'll come down to whether or not Contadore has enough gas in the tank at that point to hang with a veteran who has been biding his time and understands strategy like the best of them.

Personally, I like Contadore. He climbs amazingly and is uber-strong. He'll have a great career ahead of him. But I do think he'll crack on Mont Ventoux like Jan Ullrich did in 2003. I'd actually love to see a repeat of Lance's look into his eyes before dropping the hammer, cranking it up to 450W and blowing his doors off. And yes, I do think he will. Contadore is an awesome climber and on any given day COULD beat Lance, but after a month of competitive riding? Don't think he's picking his battles carefully enough and he's still a bit too young and rash. Lance OTOH knows how to conserve himself for when he needs every bit of his strength.

As a side note, I wish Versus/OLN/whatever they're called now would show more side-profile shots - I like seeing what kinds of bikes these guys are riding just for my own edification. I see a lot of Specialized, Giant, Trek and Cervelo. Curious to know if there are any other manufacturers with equipment in the tour this year - Orbea, Cannondale, etc.

Clear some space on your VCRs and DVRs... The important stages are coming up soon!

[RPKESQ]

I agree that unless an unfortunate accident occurs the next few days will be fairly calm. The drama on Mont Ventoux should be fantastic. A real battle. Mont Ventoux will be the deciding point and I am leaving today to pick my spot to watch. Then on to Paris to enjoy the finish (I have friends who allow me to watch from their apartment over the Avenue des Champs-Elysees), where I am treated like a king and joey is hated. How could it be better than that?

[dd74]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

I agree that unless an unfortunate accident occurs the next few days will be fairly calm. The drama on Mont Ventoux should be fantastic. A real battle. Mont Ventoux will be the deciding point and I am leaving today to pick my spot to watch. Then on to Paris to enjoy the finish (I have friends who allow me to watch from their apartment over the Avenue des Champs-Elysees), where I am treated like a king and joey is hated. How could it be better than that?

Be sure to take and post photos if you can. And if possible, send me a TDF 09 racing cap or a team water bottle when they toss them to the roadside.

I already have an official TDF 09 yellow jersey and key fob from a recent visit to Paris.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

The important stages are coming up soon!

If you're a Cav fan, the important stages are now.

[Zef]

Originally Posted by rpkesq

i agree that unless an unfortunate accident occurs the next few days will be fairly calm. The drama on mont ventoux should be fantastic. A real battle. Mont ventoux will be the deciding point and i am leaving today to pick my spot to watch. Then on to paris to enjoy the finish (i have friends who allow me to watch from their apartment over the avenue des champs-elysees), where i am treated like a king and joey is hated. How could it be better than that?smilewavy

l-u-c-k-y m-a-n

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Zef

l-u-c-k-y m-a-n

Not lucky. Just well planned. I always plan for the long term. I love history and cultural differences. I decided to live in Europe when I was 10. I knew I had to get over there and make a living in Europe. At 17 I enlisted a Army group stationed in Germany. Met (because I tried to) a lot of English professionals (to ease language difficulties). After my military career, I turned those contacts into a job offer in Africa, which led to a job offer in England, which led to renting in France and commuting to London, which led to owning in France, which led to working in Europe, which led to more jobs across the world, which led to meeting and fostering relationships around the world. And one of those relationships is the one in Paris. That is the way to get here from there.

[cmccuist]

When I was 10, I wanted a bicycle and a BB gun. I got them too!

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by cmccuist

When I was 10, I wanted a bicycle and a BB gun. I got them too!

See, a plan and success! It works most of the time.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Nothing significant is going to happen until Stage 13 (Vittel-Colmar). That's when the race goes back in the mountains for real, not just little rollers and foothills. For the next couple of stages the GC big boys will likely just sit in the peloton and not respond to any sort of attack unless someone who has potential GC implications gets away in a break (a Menchov or Sastre, like that's going to happen...) So basically it's "sit and wait" until this weekend. That's when things start to get good.

Contadore is a great rider, but I think Lance is just going to try and grind him down. The TdF is a LONG event and one stage, two stages or even a few stages do not a champion make.

Personally I think the real Astana team leader (and TdF winner) will be decided on the slopes of Mont Ventoux - the day before the "ceremonial" stage back to Paris. Very unlikely either Contadore or Armstrong will crack before then. One or the other might get a few seconds in the other here or there, but I think it's going to be very close until the final stage, then a slug-fest up the mountain. It'll come down to whether or not Contadore has enough gas in the tank at that point to hang with a veteran who has been biding his time and understands strategy like the best of them.

Personally, I like Contadore. He climbs amazingly and is uber-strong. He'll have a great career ahead of him. But I do think he'll crack on Mont Ventoux like Jan Ullrich did in 2003. I'd actually love to see a repeat of Lance's look into his eyes before dropping the hammer, cranking it up to 450W and blowing his doors off. And yes, I do think he will. Contadore is an awesome climber and on any given day COULD beat Lance, but after a month of competitive riding? Don't think he's picking his battles carefully enough and he's still a bit too young and rash. Lance OTOH knows how to conserve himself for when he needs every bit of his strength.

As a side note, I wish Versus/OLN/whatever they're called now would show more side-profile shots - I like seeing what kinds of bikes these guys are riding just for my own edification. I see a lot of Specialized, Giant, Trek and Cervelo. Curious to know if there are any other manufacturers with equipment in the tour this year - Orbea, Cannondale, etc.

Clear some space on your VCRs and DVRs... The important stages are coming up soon!

its going to come down to who attacks first, where ever that might be. whoever gets the jump, the other is oblidged to sit back and mark the other teams. is contador man enough to have that much self control to let the tour ride away from him? that is the question of the year. benard H was not. LA has shown that he is....so far, although he knows the tour would not be lost on the mountain. even with that, i am sire it was very hard to let him go. i really wonder if he could have even followed if he wanted to. contador was flying up that mountain.
i dont want to see lance give contador the look, that could be interpreted the wrong way, perhaps like it was before. i have turned to see what was going behind me and to see what was going on and i meant nothing by it. if you see the other are suffering, that is the time to attack. sometimes i have even looked back to see who was still there, that has been interpreted wrong by my brothers at times.
i said it here, its who attacks first. it may not matter who is stronger. if one can get time on the other, it could be over unless the TT can make a difference. i have not heard how either are time trialing and i dont remember where the TT falls, velonews.com has done a piss pour job on previewing the stages. they only show the map, not the profile.

if you want to see the bikes, velonews.com may all the team bikes. they were all in the magazine.

[teenerted1]

tt on the 23rd stage 18
http://www.letour.fr/2009/TDF/LIVE/us/1800/index.html

[dd74]

Personally, I'd like to see some steel in the TDF. To my knowledge, everyone's on plastic. Blah!

When steel can come within a pound of carbon, a stage win on tig welding would be huge.

I'd also like to see Schwinn field a team. They are making enough money to do so, and have the pedigree of the Italians and French manufacturers.

Put a team on a brace of hand-built Reynolds 953 Schwinn Paramount frames, and see what happens.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

That would be awesome.

Like you said though, these teams need the "funky" factor in order to sell $10k bikes to poseurs and lardasses. Enter the carbon, graphite, unobtanium stuff. Same as with tennis or skiing or golf. The latest and greatest is what sells - and there are suckers lined up out the door and down the block to buy it just because it says "2009 model" on it instead of "2008 model". Not that anyone will ever really push the equipment to the point such miniscule differences in design performance might matter. That doesn't matter. Big money in it too...

[dd74]

Don't forget, the new models are stamped out of a press in Taiwan. So they're cheap. Your cost - well, grab your ankles. It all depends on who puts their name on the DT. Colnago, Coppi or Kona.

Like Bobke said during last year's TDF when Hammer asked what sort of bike he rides. "One with personality."

That can't be a Trek, Specialized, Cervelo, etc., etc.,

Bobke's ride was a hand-built steel Serotta made in upstate NY. Huffy was stamped on it. So was 7-11. Could it compete now? Yes, I bet it could.

[teenerted1]

one of the teams on cannodale complete bike weighs @12 lbs several pounds below the min weight limit...so team have to be creative on how they add the balast.
FDJ team replica bike weights 6.6kg, teams ride will be even lighter still.

cant get steel to be strong enough and light enough to compete. i ride steal on the road but the lightest my bike has ever gotten to is in the 19 lb range

i dont know what stamp you are talking about from tiawan. if they are even using a production carbon fiber frame even those are hand laid.

schwinn is owned by pacific...well known for making bikes to sell at walmart. sorry not the same company as even 10 yrs ago. not what i would ride even across the parking lot to the dumpster.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by teenerted1

one of the teams on cannodale complete bike weighs @12 lbs several pounds below the min weight limit...so team have to be creative on how they add the balast.
FDJ team replica bike weights 6.6kg, teams ride will be even lighter still.

cant get steel to be strong enough and light enough to compete. i ride steal on the road but the lightest my bike has ever gotten to is in the 19 lb range

i dont know what stamp you are talking about from tiawan. if they are even using a production carbon fiber frame even those are hand laid.

schwinn is owned by pacific...well known for making bikes to sell at walmart. sorry not the same company as even 10 yrs ago. not what i would ride even across the parking lot to the dumpster.

You're right about the Cannondale ballast part. As toward everything else, well, you need to do a bit more research.

1) Steel is more than strong enough. Carbon at this point of lightness is brittle. Steel has flex. Carbon: drop it the wrong way, it'll snap in half.

2) Half those bikes are some other manufacturers bikes and some other manufacturer still, and it all comes from one big factory in the Far East. You know, sort of like the big Alien mama laying all those alien eggs in the basement. It's sort of like that. The hand-laid stuff can be found on Cannondale, Trek, Look, Time, IIRC.

3) Walmart? Yeah, so. I've seen Treks being sold at Lowes and Sears. It's all the same - made in China.

If you've heard of Serotta or Waterford, you've heard of Schwinn Paramount.

Not for sale at Walmart? Not many would go in to plop down $6K for a bike, let alone just the frame as is in this case.

[teenerted1]

been in the bike industry since 1986

used to have a serotta.

racers have always opted for stiffness over flex.

many companies are using the same factories in asia, but they have contracts to either use a common design or one of their own.
some companies use the same common frame. more likely with more mass produced models. but they are not all the same and all from china.

but when it comes to carbon most are using their own designs and might contract to the same plant in taiwan but they still dont share much.

sorry to burst your bubble but cabon frames dont break if you drop them. have you ever tried to break a carbon post? try hitting a steal pipe with a carbon post then a steal post on same steal pipe...neither breaks and the carbon one doesnt sting your hands.

treks at anything other than a Independent Bike Dealer?
doubt that, they have very strict rules on who sells their bikes. most of the higher end brands do.

the waterford schwinn paramount is not the same as the Schwinn that is sold through wally world and thus not the same money involved it supporting a pro team of the level that participates in "le Tour"
Schwinn was sold in 1993 to the Scott Sports Group, who retained the Paramount name/ trademark but sold off the Waterford factory. It was purchased and is now run by Marc Muller, Richard Schwinn (the great grandson of Ignaz Schwinn) and George Garner. George got his start at Hans Ohrt Lightweight bicycles in Beverly Hills. George bought Valley Cyclery in Van Nuys, California in the late 1940's( I worked there in 1979 ) and established 4 more shops in the Los Angles area. I mention him and his background because he was instrumental in working with Frank W. Schwinn, Ray Burch and Schwinn's marketing dept to develop the 'total-concept store' as well as uniform work procedures, marketing, advertising and company service schools to keep all dealers up to date. Waterford Precision Cycles is alive and doing quite well, a great success in their own right. That success, is owed in part to their early pioneering efforts with oversize tubesets such as 753 and 853 as well as their unique relationship with Reynolds.

the big schwinn is now part of Doral Industries...along with several other marques
http://www.dorel.com/marques.htm

[Zef]

Thanks for the info Ted....My beast is a carbon one, shimano Ultegra equipped....No regret yet to have go by carbon...I simply love the rigidity it come with....!