Why is that cheap mustang faster than my M-3?

[911pcars]

"Why is that cheap mustang faster than my M-3?"

Mustang GT500; about $47,000
Bimmer M3; about $55,000

I wouldn't call the Mustang cheap. I'd call both vehicles overpriced.

Most would grant that Bimmers have better technology and the build quality is better.

Mustang has more torque:
Mustang GT, 4.6 liter V8; 315/325 HP/torque
Mustang GT500, 5.4 liter V8; 540/510 HP/torque

BMW 4.0 liter V8, 414/295 HP/Torque); top speed, 155 mph; 0 to 60 in 4.7 seconds

but you're comparing a hot rod engine transplant: 466 HP and 439 ft./lbs of TQ

That's why the "cheaper" Mustang would be faster. BTW, how much is a Mustang GT with the installed hot rod engine?

Between the two, Mustang is the champ of stop light racing, but that's about all. Paul, as a former Porsche owner, you should understand the difference between brute force and a balanced vehicle, but it sounds like you have gone over to the relatively comfy side of 1/4 mile automotive performance.

typical Mustang vs Bimmer drag racing video:


YMMV,
Sherwood

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

I used to beat M3s with my cheap Buick.

Me too.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Tobra

My friend with the supercharged integra sedan used to show the M3 guys his tail lights a lot at track days. I remember talking about it to a plastic surgeon in one of said M3's, he was bent because he was getting his ass handed to him by a freakin' glorified civic.

Same deal with my POS RX7, except exchange M3's for Ferrari's and you get the picture.

As long as the Mustang guys and M3 guys are giving nice clear point buys at the tracks days I am all good.

When I went to take my CCW permit course, the guy hosting it has 2 mustangs in his garage. One was an older one with a supercharger and N2O IIRC it was an 8 second car. Both were set up for 1/4 mile racing. The new one was a GT500 and was worked over, he said it made 680 to the wheels and was running in the low 9's and 8's were not far off. I was impressed but I still am not into point and shoot cars so it would probably be a bigger deal to someone that is.

[turbo6bar]

My guess is pwd's penis has grown by at least 9" since taking possession of the Bullitt. How do you manage to keep it in your pants, man?

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

"there is no substitute for cubic inches" -Stroker McGurk

Bet you miss it...at least the straight line part of it.

Sure there is. Cubic dollars. Just look at the F1 cars. Several million will get you a small displacement lightweight engine with 800 to 900 HP, without a turbocharger.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Sure there is. Cubic dollars. Just look at the F1 cars. Several million will get you a small displacement lightweight engine with 800 to 900 HP, without a turbocharger.

And almost no torque

[Z-man]

Picked up my Ford Sport Trac at the dealer on Monday (35k mile service), and saw an '08 Shelby GT500 on the floor. The window sticker says something like, "Not for street use - EPA testing not complete." Nice marketing...

If I weren't so into Porsches and PCA, I would seriously consider a '09 Shelby GT500. Or even a Bullitt GT. The body on the Shelby is a little busy, and I'm not an 'in your face' kinda guy, but you can't complain about 540hp, even with a solid rear axle!!! Price per HP can't be beat.

Speaking of, on a smooth track, a solid rear axle setup tends to get the power down more efficiently than an IRS, or so I've been told... When I jack the back end of my 944S2 up, there's a piece of old technology there called torsion bars - seem to work well for me.

I guess it's time for me to grow a mullet...
-Z-man.

[Rot 911]

Hmmmm just looked up the times for my Ducati Monster:

Corrected 1/4-mile: 11.23 sec. @ 111.0 mph
0-60 mph: 3.92 sec.

And I am only into if for $8k.

The Mustang is nice, no doubt. But I also love the way my 911 and 325i drive. They both bring a smile to my face. And if I want to go fast in a straight line I can always hop on the Duc. And I can do all of this without feeling the need to slam on other cars.

[gprsh924]

I've driven my Dad's M3 cab and I have also driven an 05 Mustang GT cab. Mustang is nice no doubt, and the V8 pulls nicely, but I would take the M3 hands down every time, despite the price difference. Different strokes for different folks

[GG Allin]

The Mustang/M3 drag race looked like a heard of turtles.

I was in a 997 GT3 a couple years ago as a passenger at Road America. We were chasing a Mustang Cobra R, MY 2001 I believe. I couldn't believe how fast that Mustang was.

[tchanson]

Tim

[daepp]

Having driven an 07 GT500 I was not that impressed with the handling. It seemed like a whole lot of understeer occaisioned by a whole lot of oversteer when you got on it.

Loved the exhaust note and straight line power. Thought the interior looked and felt great, but there are some significant flaws in ergonomics. eg. if you put a coffee cup in the cup holder, you just about can't move the shifter. And the tall hood makes forward visibility a little iffy - been a long time since I drove a car where the hood didn't slope down. First car I ever noticed that did this was a honda civic, and I found the large hood to be in the way. Is that too picky? To drive it every day I think it would be a problem.

[daepp]

One more thought - it's the first modern car I've driven with a stick. Why don't the rpm's fall off when you let off the gas like the cars of old?

[fumanchu]

One more thought - it's the first modern car I've driven with a stick. Why don't the rpm's fall off when you let off the gas like the cars of old?

One of the reasons I sold my newly bought mustang GT was this fact. Was super irritating, the dealer blew me off of course. Sold the car at the time for a huge loss because the 951 was faster and had no payment to boot. Did great burnouts though.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

"Why is that cheap mustang faster than my M-3?"

Mustang GT500; about $47,000
Bimmer M3; about $55,000

I wouldn't call the Mustang cheap. I'd call both vehicles overpriced.

Most would grant that Bimmers have better technology and the build quality is better.

Mustang has more torque:
Mustang GT, 4.6 liter V8; 315/325 HP/torque
Mustang GT500, 5.4 liter V8; 540/510 HP/torque

BMW 4.0 liter V8, 414/295 HP/Torque); top speed, 155 mph; 0 to 60 in 4.7 seconds

but you're comparing a hot rod engine transplant: 466 HP and 439 ft./lbs of TQ

That's why the "cheaper" Mustang would be faster. BTW, how much is a Mustang GT with the installed hot rod engine?

Between the two, Mustang is the champ of stop light racing, but that's about all. Paul, as a former Porsche owner, you should understand the difference between brute force and a balanced vehicle, but it sounds like you have gone over to the relatively comfy side of 1/4 mile automotive performance.




YMMV,
Sherwood

Figure $7K to add the edelbrock supercharger, professionally installed. I bought my "bullitt" for under $30K. So, for $37K...a car that will outdrag an M-3, AND perform as well on a skidpad.

Yep, I had a '72S...a real one, unlike some fakes I've seen. It's still probably the best unrestored one left on the planet. AND...the more valuable & coveted it became, the less I enjoyed driving it. I really didn't enjoy people sucking up to me, hoping I'd sell it to them. Those people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing. I think I handled that problem well. "balanced"? Sherwood, you should drive a Bullitt Mustang with an open mind...you might be as surprised at it's "balance" as I was. BTW, the Mustang in your video was probably a 5.0. Today's normally aspirated 4.6 with overhead cams is faster. @315 horses, not as fast as the 422 horse M-3, but a stock 13.5 in the quarter isn't bad.

I sure agree with DAE about the cupholders. I only use 'em for holding a glasses case. But then, NO cupholders in the '72S. I'm not much for eating, drinking, or using a cell phone while driving anyway.

One rule I had when searching for a fun car was no more 180 mile round trips to Portland to have work done on it. In this small population area, that left me with pretty much domestic or Japanese. Ford is the only domestic car maker that didn't voluntarily become a ward of the state.

I'm satisfied with my choice. Just as another former early 911 friend is with his M-3... But he lives in Beaverton, a short distance from the dealership and independent shops familiar with his car. I rode in his M-3 last September...a VERY impressive car indeed. He made a great choice for his wants and needs.

We choose our rides for many reasons. Hmmm...check out Peter Egan's column in the August R&T issue. A quote:

"Windows down, that wonderful growl coming from the twin pipes. Nice taut suspension, yet not harsh. Great brakes, lots of ripping power, quick steering, good pedal placement and shifter, excellent seats. And that sound...
"This is a wonderful car," I said matter-of-factly to myself."

Peter Egan writing on his latest ride...a 2009 Mustang Bullitt.

[daepp]

I just finished that Egan piece this morning.

What's amazing to me about the 07 GT500 (2600 miles) is how much less it's worth than a new mustang.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by DAEpperson

I just finished that Egan piece this morning.

What's amazing to me about the 07 GT500 (2600 miles) is how much less it's worth than a new mustang.

Yep, mustangs depreciate like crazy. But then, GT2's with low mileage are out there for sale with asking prices reflecting a large depreciation...nearly large enough that my Bullitt's worth could go down to zero, and I still won't have lost as much as the guy who bought a new Porsche GT2.

It's really all about choices...but few bought new cars go up in value...I just lucked out and picked the right car when I bought my '72S coupe back in '74...

(edit) However in the case of your family connected GT500? I dunno, you might think of hanging on to it. The major depreciation hit has already been taken. In light of the automotive future Obama says he has planned for us, used performance machines of any make may see an increase in demand as the new CAFE standards cars arrive. Hmmm, that might be a good topic for a thread..