carrera 0-60 times

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Steve W

I wouldn't be surprised if the C&D car had a ringer Euro compression motor with the C&D driver dumping the clutch at 4000 rpm to get a low 5 second time.

Well, a "ringer" was exactly what Buick provided either R&T or C&D (this is all IIRC) when it tested a later Grand National. It seemed as if that car went from 0-60 in 4.3 seconds, and later became the GNX. I believe it was flared, had larger wheels and tires and put out 310 hp. When the magazine found the car had been...um..."supplemented," Buick immediately came out with the GNX model of the Grand National. Soon after, the whole Grand National project faded away in lieu of a newer model.

I've seen one or two of those GNX cars on the road; one was driven by Sean Penn. This was years ago, BTW.

[m21sniper]

The grand national was not replaced with a newer model, it went out of production only because GM terminated the G body it was based on, as it phased out all rear wheel drive passenger cars.

I know a guy with a GNX, all he did was replace the chip and factory exhaust(which he has stored), it runs 12.5's in the 1/4 mile.

[kaisen]

[GG Allin]

Two thoughts, could you get vintage NASCAR parts to make one of these GN's or T-Types handle better? And why not a turbo Buick powered 911? If a Chevy small block will fit, so will one of those engines. They mount the same in the G body cars. Imagine all that cheap boosted power pushing around a 911.

[911boost]

I have a Buick with over 340 hp and 400 foot pounds of torque....

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by mbrouder

Two thoughts, could you get vintage NASCAR parts to make one of these GN's or T-Types handle better? And why not a turbo Buick powered 911? If a Chevy small block will fit, so will one of those engines. They mount the same in the G body cars. Imagine all that cheap boosted power pushing around a 911.

A 3.8 SFI turbo motor would work quite well in a 911. I've seen 3.8s dyno over 1000rwhp more than once.

The GN (regal/olds cutlass/monte carlo) could be made into a 'decent' handler by the addition of top notch lowered coil springs, big dollar koni or equivelant shocks, and fatter front and rear swaybars(they do sell them). I don't know if anyone makes a rear disk upgrade for them though.

It would never handle like a 911, but it could certainly be made to handle vastly better than they did in stock form.

That would be a hell of a fun car to own.


My 83 T-Type turbo.

[Schumi]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I don't know if anyone makes a rear disk upgrade for them though.

They had drum rear brakes??



*sigh*


I'd take one if it was cheap enough... but for the money I'll find myself a 951...



I still don't think the used 951 has totally clicked in people's minds. With very little money ($9,000 easy) you can have a great handling, 300HP, 0-60 in 5s, 2800 lb car with a top speed of almost 170mph.....

Any new car that can do that will set you back $30K.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by mbrouder

Two thoughts, could you get vintage NASCAR parts to make one of these GN's or T-Types handle better?

http://www.hotchkis.net/7888_ag_body_tvs_system.html

Hotchkis makes great G-body suspension upgrades. With the right tires, they can carve corners with the best 3800 lb cars

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Schumi

I'd take one if it was cheap enough... but for the money I'll find myself a 951...

I still don't think the used 951 has totally clicked in people's minds.

I totally agree. The 951 already has handling and brakes, and is a few simple upgrades away from 300+hp. And the interior is way nicer than any Grand National.

A good 951 is thousands less than a good Grand National.

A 3.2 Carrera isn't cheap, and for the same money a 951 would be faster.

But that's apples and oranges and pears, isn't it?

[GG Allin]

Originally Posted by kaisen

http://www.hotchkis.net/7888_ag_body_tvs_system.html

Hotchkis makes great G-body suspension upgrades. With the right tires, they can carve corners with the best 3800 lb cars

Is that the weight for these cars? Something I've always wondered.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by kaisen

I totally agree. The 951 already has handling and brakes, and is a few simple upgrades away from 300+hp. And the interior is way nicer than any Grand National.

A good 951 is thousands less than a good Grand National.

A 3.2 Carrera isn't cheap, and for the same money a 951 would be faster.

But that's apples and oranges and pears, isn't it?

I like the interior of the Grand National better than that of the 951 actually.

A good T-Type(same car as GN) is about the same price as a good 951, and is a few simple upgrades away from 400+ hp. And unlike the 951, you can launch a GN HARD, over and over and over wihtout blowing shiit up. If it does blow up you're buying low priced GM parts, not expensive over-priced Porsche parts.

I also personally think the GN/T-Type is a far cooler looking car, but that's just my taste.

They're not really comparable cars though. They are made for very different niches.

3800lbs is probably about right for the curb weight of a GN.

IMO my 928 is significantly better than both of them.

[dd74]

FWIW, during a track day, some guy with more money than God brought a couple ex-Nextel Cup cars for their required exercise:

Forget the modded 911 Porsche with the 3.6 or whatever,
the raced-out Miata,
the hollowed out EVO
or the cool-looking Ferrari.

Nothing but an IRL or ALMS race car would be able to stay with those Nextel Cup Cars. They were fast and handled; particularly for their size.

No reason the same couldn't be expected of the GNX. All I'd want: a manual transmission.

But honestly - better choices can be made, the 951 not withstanding -- which is a very good idea, IMO.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

And unlike the 951, you can launch a GN HARD, over and over and over wihtout blowing shiit up.

I think this is key. Yes, you can get a good 0-60 time from a Porsche. After I got my G-Tech I got a 5.8 sec (911 Carrera). But the car stinks of clutch afterward, the clutch doesn't feel right, and you know that if you make a habit of this, a big bill will follow. So that acceleration isn't really usable, for most of us who have to pay for repairs. I don't know about 951 or 928.

[kaisen]

Lauching a GN hard is also very easy.
Just use your right foot to slowly build boost, use your left on the brake.
When boost is high enough, release left foot and bury right foot
Repeat as necessary

The 200R4 auto trans is pretty tough, as is the solid rear end. If they break, they're cheap and upgrades are cheap and plentiful

But making them really handle takes more than just suspension parts and sticky tires.
The chassis is pretty flexible.
Those Nextel Cup cars are fully caged and are stiffer than any stock Porsche
It would take some work and money to make a GN stiff enough

[GG Allin]

Originally Posted by kaisen

The chassis is pretty flexible.

The T top cars especially. Unsafe too, ever see one of those G body cars with T tops go in to a pole or tree sideways? It ain't pretty.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Those Nextel Cup cars are fully caged and are stiffer than any stock Porsche

Yes, that's true.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by jyl

I think this is key. Yes, you can get a good 0-60 time from a Porsche. After I got my G-Tech I got a 5.8 sec (911 Carrera). But the car stinks of clutch afterward, the clutch doesn't feel right, and you know that if you make a habit of this, a big bill will follow. So that acceleration isn't really usable, for most of us who have to pay for repairs. I don't know about 951 or 928.

You can beat the living snot out of a 4speed 928 auto transaxle. (made by mercedes benz)

Ask me how i know.

The 50/50 weight balanced 928 with 4 speed LSD transaxle is a monstrous launcher. It is easily the equal to the big Buick turbo in this regard. That's really saying something considering that the GN's are known for being great out of the hole. That being said, the 5 speed 928 manuals suck for launching in comparison. Very prone to wheel hop, for whatever reason.

Originally Posted by dd74

All I'd want: a manual transmission.

They made the Buick Regal Turbo in 1978 with a manual transmission.

So if you got hold of a 78 flywheel, z-bar, pedals, and crossmember you could pretty easily convert a later model GN to a manual.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Lauching a GN hard is also very easy.
Just use your right foot to slowly build boost, use your left on the brake.
When boost is high enough, release left foot and bury right foot
Repeat as necessary

The 200R4 auto trans is pretty tough, as is the solid rear end. If they break, they're cheap and upgrades are cheap and plentiful

But making them really handle takes more than just suspension parts and sticky tires.
The chassis is pretty flexible.
Those Nextel Cup cars are fully caged and are stiffer than any stock Porsche
It would take some work and money to make a GN stiff enough

All true, that's why i said you could get a huge improvement with lowering/coils/shocks/tires, but that it still would not be a 'great' handling machine.

No, if you wanted a great handling GM platform with a turbo 3.8L V-6 turbo motor you'd just buy one of these:


The 89' Turbo Trans Am had GNX performance in a Trans Am body with upgraded suspension and brakes.

It was up to that time the only Indy 500 pacecar ever made that did not need modifications of any kind (besides the lights, of course) to perform actual pacecar duty during the Indy 500 race.

One hell of a car, but very rare, and also very expensive. And i still like the looks of the GN way better anyway.
To me the GN is one of the most classically beautiful muscle cars ever made.

[dd74]

I always thought one reason the Buick and Trans-Am never handled as well as they could was they were so heavy. Now, if I were into a F-Body (?) Firebird, I'd definitely get this:



Firehawks are fairly rare - even in L.A. Good looking in an understated way. Sort of Pontiac's answer to Saleen or SVO, I imagine.

[kaisen]

I had a 1989 20th Anniversary Turbo T/A. A GN would easily beat it in the 1/4. It was not nearly as fast as a GNX. It also handled only slightly better than a GNX. There was very little difference between the G-body (GN/X) and F-body (TA) in terms of underpinnings.

The Firehawk dd74 brought up was nothing more than a hood, wing, and wheels different than a Formula or Trans Am. SLP (Street Legal Performance) built them along side the Chevrolet Camaro SS. The SS was a GM RPO (Regular Production Option) where the Firehawk was not. RPO WS6 was the Ram Air Trans Am which was built not by SLP, but by ASC (same mfr as GNX).