 
					|   | 
 | 
 | 
| 
 | 
| Registered Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Linn County, Oregon 
					Posts: 48,583
				 | 
			Am I the only one here that would be nervous with the federal government having a database of all the Concealed Carry Permit holders in the country?
		 
				__________________ "Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have a radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. '73) (I, Paul D. have loved this quote since 1973. It will remain as long as I post here.) | ||
|  07-22-2009, 09:37 PM | 
 | 
| Registered | 
			You think it doesn't already exist?  I've heard they just hand over NICS check records to the Brits, who store it for them and keep them within the law.
		 
				__________________ 2022 BMW 530i 2021 MB GLA250 2020 BMW R1250GS | ||
|  07-22-2009, 09:39 PM | 
 | 
| Slackerous Maximus Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Columbus, OH 
					Posts: 18,205
				 | Quote: 
 ). Let buy in be voluntary. Once you have a few blocks of states, presure from the shooting community would push additional states to join. Here in WA, we are a 'right to carry' state. Just a background check, 30 day wait, and your good to go. I don't think thats a good thing. I don't like the idea of having my time wasted in a safety course, but it would make me feel better about others who are being issued permits. 
				__________________ 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor. 2012 Harley Davidson Road King 2014 Triumph Bonneville T100. 2014 Cayman S, PDK. Mercedes E350 family truckster. | ||
|  07-22-2009, 09:57 PM | 
 | 
| Registered | 
			AFAIK, all the states that require classroom instruction require it to be done by an NRA-certified instructor.  I've seen class fees range from $40-$200.  But like a drivers license, why should I have to spend money on classes when I already know how to shoot and am well above average?
		 
				__________________ 2022 BMW 530i 2021 MB GLA250 2020 BMW R1250GS | ||
|  07-22-2009, 10:04 PM | 
 | 
| B58/732 Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Hot as Hell, AZ 
					Posts: 12,313
				 | 
			
The ONLY state in the Union that doesn't have an egregiously oppressive, unconstitutional concealed-carry law is Vermont.
		 
				__________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ I don't always talk to vegetarians--but when I do, it's with a mouthful of bacon. | ||
|  07-22-2009, 10:13 PM | 
 | 
| Registered | 
			Why should we have to take your word for it?  You had to take a written and driving test for your drivers license, should be no less for a CHL.  Quote: 
 | ||
|  07-22-2009, 10:19 PM | 
 | 
|   | 
| Registered | 
			
Driving is a privilege, not a right.  Not so for CCW.  However, I'd be happy to take a test, but none is required other than range qualifying.
		 
				__________________ 2022 BMW 530i 2021 MB GLA250 2020 BMW R1250GS | ||
|  07-22-2009, 10:21 PM | 
 | 
| Registered | 
			That is your opinion, but not even the Heller decision establishes any unfettered "right to carry" a concealed weapon.  Too many gun owners have this religious fervour about bearing arms, and refuse to accept any restrictions on guns, no matter how reasonable or modest. That sort of "my way or the highway" zealotry is counter productive. If the Thune bill had included minimum standards for CHLs, maybe it would have gotten two more votes. I would like to see CHL applicants take a test on the legal use of their weapon, basic safety, and a range test. No need for a class if they can self study. Plus fingerprinting, criminal and other background check. Then they should be good to go. Their CHL should be recognized by every other state, just like the state's own CHL, if the state has a CHL. So if California wanted to stop AZ residents from carrying in CA, CA would have to stop issuing CHLs to their own residents. Quote: 
 Last edited by jyl; 07-22-2009 at 10:37 PM.. | ||
|  07-22-2009, 10:29 PM | 
 | 
| Registered | 
			Would you feel the same way if you were required to take a civics quiz before being allowed to vote?
		 
				__________________ 2022 BMW 530i 2021 MB GLA250 2020 BMW R1250GS | ||
|  07-22-2009, 10:38 PM | 
 | 
| Registered | 
			Casting a vote recklessly or incompetently creates no risk of bodily harm to those around me. Because there is no risk, there is no justification for requiring safety training before voting.  Quote: 
 | ||
|  07-22-2009, 10:42 PM | 
 | 
| Slackerous Maximus Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Columbus, OH 
					Posts: 18,205
				 | 
			
Rick, I don't worry about you. There are some folks out there, particularly young folks who have never had a parent/leader teach them gun safety and they are not compotent to handle a weapon. My dad taught me from an early age to respect weapons, but sadly that is not taught in many homes.
		 
				__________________ 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor. 2012 Harley Davidson Road King 2014 Triumph Bonneville T100. 2014 Cayman S, PDK. Mercedes E350 family truckster. | ||
|  07-22-2009, 11:07 PM | 
 | 
| Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South of Heaven 
					Posts: 21,159
				 | Quote: 
 I think you're way off base with this assertion. | ||
|  07-23-2009, 12:16 AM | 
 | 
|   | 
| Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South of Heaven 
					Posts: 21,159
				 | Quote: 
 We don't fingerprint people getting driver's licenses, i see no need to fingerprint CCW holders either. Nor does my state. | ||
|  07-23-2009, 12:18 AM | 
 | 
| Bandwidth AbUser Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SoCal 
					Posts: 29,522
				 | Quote: 
 I'm not one of the "gun owners hav[ing] this religious fervour about bearing arms." I do question whether or not the Supremes are overstepping the wording and intent of the 2nd Amendment. I am not a Constitutional scholar or lawyer, but, I can read and have some education. It looks to me that there is nothing in the amendment that confers any rights to the states allowing them to regulate any aspect of the right to bear arms. I do favor training, and criminal background checks and even checks to see if a person is being treated for psychological disorders. I just don't see state's rights coming into play here, and that's one of the reasons the Senate failed to pass this.   
				__________________ Jim R. Last edited by Jim Richards; 07-23-2009 at 02:52 AM.. | ||
|  07-23-2009, 02:27 AM | 
 | 
| canna change law physics | 
			
Alaska. They will issue you a permit, so that you can carry in reciprocity states. But there is no permet required to carry in the state.
		 
				__________________ James The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the engineer adjusts the sails.- William Arthur Ward (1921-1994) Red-beard for President, 2020 | ||
|  07-23-2009, 03:07 AM | 
 | 
| Registered | 
			Democracy means the ruler is whoever the majority votes for. So, if harm is done by my vote in aggregate with your vote and everyone else's vote, that is a harm explicitly permitted by the democratic principle.   Quote: 
 Last edited by jyl; 07-23-2009 at 04:17 AM.. | ||
|  07-23-2009, 04:15 AM | 
 | 
| The Unsettler | 
			
Yes we do, in TX you give both thumbs, no prints, no license.   I nearly walked out of their DMV but I'm already in the system so figured WTH do i have to lose at this point. 
				__________________ "I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" | ||
|  07-23-2009, 04:55 AM | 
 | 
| canna change law physics | 
			TX - FBI background check including finger printing, 8 hours of classroom training on "the law", firearm handling and shooting test, money. And I'm up for renewal next year. Wow, 5 years goes fast! 
				__________________ James The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the engineer adjusts the sails.- William Arthur Ward (1921-1994) Red-beard for President, 2020 | ||
|  07-23-2009, 05:28 AM | 
 | 
| Bandwidth AbUser Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SoCal 
					Posts: 29,522
				 | Quote: 
   
				__________________ Jim R. | ||
|  07-23-2009, 05:47 AM | 
 | 
| Registered | 
			In OR there is no actual shooting/range test required for the CHL.  You don't have to demonstrate that you know how to operate your weapon, can handle it safely, or can hit what you're aiming at.
		 
				__________________ 1989 3.2 Carrera coupe; 1988 Westy Vanagon, Zetec; 1986 E28 M30; 1994 W124; 2004 S211 What? Uh . . . “he” and “him”? | ||
|  07-23-2009, 05:53 AM | 
 |