Stijn!!

[GH85Carrera]

Yea, the rules committee has a tough job. They have to put into black and white a simple to read rule that covers every situation, for every Porsche and every driver in every situation. It is an impossible task. Some rules, get a bit arbitrary just to make it a simple yes or no situation. No helmet, no driving on a track.

For many years I participated in the autocross at Parade. I was never willing to drive on the highway a long way on autocross tires, and always have had street tires that are good in the rain. I get to autocross and the top competitors all had DOT tires, but tread wear zero gummy autocross tires. It is an insurmountable advantage. I sent letters and several other members that actually drove their cars to Parade did as well. They finally realized, the real point pf Parade is for car owners to drive to parade and compete. The race cars are on trailers.

Now that the only decent street tires I can find are 17s, they relented, and street tires with a tread wear of 180 or higher, in stock sizes are all I can do without getting bumped up a class. So I have to get some 15 inch tires just to compete in autocross. I want a second set of tires almost as much as I want diarrhea.

[Porsche-poor]

I don't have that problem cause the car would be out here without me as their rules prohibit me from playing. I wonder how they would feel about a visit from an ADA lawyer? LOL

[GH85Carrera]

Well slap me silly. I actually decided to read the newest Parade competition rules.

The width and diameter of the wheel is free, and my tires are treadwear 220, so I can compete without penalty. I may have to try the autocross after all.

[Porsche-poor]

there ya go!

[RKDinOKC]

One winter with the 928GT I had some low tread wear street tires, think they were 140. Got some snow and Ice and couldn't even get out of my culdesak. So got some all seasons that were like 400 tread wear. They didn't last 6000 miles on the GT. And that was without autocrossing on them. The 928GT just ate those suckers up. Put the tires that couldn't handle the ice and snow back on and it drove another 12,000 with no issues including autocross.

[GH85Carrera]

The summer tires I have are Michelin Pilot Sports. Not the Sport Cup. Treadwear of 220. The last autocross we had was a slow drizzle and the track was soaked. I was astonished how much grip they had in the rain. Once they heat up on a dry day they have orders of magnitude more traction than the best of the 15 inch tires I ever had. Partly because they are lots wider. The 225 in the front are what I used to have in the rear. I have 255s in the rears now. That is a lot more rubber. The perfectly fill the fenders.

The profile of the tire is shorter and the overall diameter of the tire is perfect. 225/45/17 front and 255/40/17 rear are along way from 195/65/15 and 215/60/15s.

[sammyg2]

Many moons ago I had a 914 with a chebby 350 ,and kuhmo victorracer tires. Tread wear rating of 50, DOT approved street legal. Barely.

I could steer that car through a corner with my right foot.

[GH85Carrera]

We had a local guy show up at our autocross for a while with a 914 and a 350 small block. It had so much torque all it did was spin. As soon as he got on the gas, the rear tires spun, and he would do a loop. We called him the top, and he was the champion donut performer. If he was lucky he could go straight. I presume he needed a limited slip transmission. It was a total POS and he vanished.

The coolest 914 was a local architect that had a top professional builder make him a 914 6 GT with a 3.6 liter 911 engine. It was just a fantastic car and had a great paint job. I bet he paid more for that car than my house cost at the time.

[RKDinOKC]

Thought the way to steer a 4 wheel drift thru ALL corners was with the right foot?

[GH85Carrera]

Only if you have more power than traction. It will not work with a old air cooled car like a 911. Too much traction for the power available.

[RKDinOKC]

Actually a 4 wheel drift has nothing to do with power. Power oversteer yes, 4 wheel drift no,

[RKDinOKC]

Oh wow. Figured out I could use the Accessibility feature to make my cursors the size I want. A normal sized cursor worked great on one screen, but kept getting lost on two big monitors. I can shake the mouse and the cursor gets really big, but that gets to be a hassle. With the accessibility settings I can make it a little bigger and the cursor does not get lost in the first place.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

We had a local guy show up at our autocross for a while with a 914 and a 350 small block. It had so much torque all it did was spin. As soon as he got on the gas, the rear tires spun, and he would do a loop. We called him the top, and he was the champion donut performer. If he was lucky he could go straight. I presume he needed a limited slip transmission. It was a total POS and he vanished.

.

loose nut at the wheel?
My car was controllable but point and shoot. I'd throttle-steer the rear through the apex and then light up the tires until the next braking point.
I was a crappy driver but that car made me look good.


Then there was the time i lit up both rear tires through second gear at the start line, almost looped it. That was in my 911SC.
I spooled up the turbo a tad too much before dropping the clutch. They darn near sent me home for that one.
Had to sit in the corner.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

loose nut at the wheel?
My car was controllable but point and shoot. I'd throttle-steer the rear through the apex and then light up the tires until the next braking point.
I was a crappy driver but that car made me look good.

Very possible. Almost every time he came out of a corner he gave it too much gas, and would spin. He tried all day to make one single clean run.

If drifting a corner was the fastest way, real racers would do it. Only dirt track racers slide around corners. Well except the "drifters" and they are looking for tire smoke not speed through the corner. It is fun to slide through a corner, but not fast.

[sammyg2]

Wow, major thunder storm here right now. I don't remember ever hearing that much thunder in So Cal.

What the heck is going on up there, sky?
Don't make me take my belt off............


(stolen from some has-been bobcat)

[bob hogaboam]

Great lightning storm here in Hermosa Beach. Wish it were night time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GH85Carrera]

We get some big ol good ones, or good old big ones, thunderstorms. We had some thunder the other day that shook the house and it was rolling thunder that seemed to last forever.

One of my wife's former co-workers was a blonde to the bone. Her name was Sue, and she had some funny "Sue-isms," that she had no idea they were funny. Once she commented on the big thunderstorm and all the thunder that happened the night before. She said it was a lot of loud thunder, but fortunately no lightning.

[RKDinOKC]

Real racers do 4 wheel drift corners. You are confusing a 4 wheel drift with that "drifting" stunt driving where they hang the rear end out. With modern tires it is difficult to tell from just watching if they are 4 wheel drifting or not.

Tires have what is called the slip angle. It is the angle between the direction the rim is rolling and the angle the tire is traveling. For the maximum speed in a turn the are a lot of variables. The radius of the turn, the speed, the road surface, and the grip of the tire's slip angle traction. It is called the slip angle because the tread slipping a little sideways not just rolling. Different tires have different slip angle traction. Some the tires abruptly break loose when their slip angle limit is reached, some grip tapers off. They are called hard edged or soft edged respectively. The slip angle is usually from 8 to 15 degrees.

Remember when I first learn about this slip angle stuff watching an F1 race when they had both Michelin and Bridgestone tires. The conditions went from dry to wet several times. When the conditions changed either way the Michelin car would spin and slide off the track. It was because the Michelins were hard edged and not as easy to tell when they stated going past the slip angle limits like Bridgestone cars.

When you are going the maximum speed in a turn all 4 tires are at the limits of their slip angle which means they are slipping or drifting and are in what is called a 4 wheel drift. This does not mean the tires are spinning faster than the vehicle is traveling like the "drifting" competitions smoking their rear tires all around the course.

The slip angle of the front wheels is easily managed with the steering wheel, BUT the slip angle of the rear tires is managed by the angle of the vehicle itself. That is why dirt track, and ice driving the rear hangs out. It is not because they are driving like "drifters."

When I learned to setup my cars it was about setting the springs and anti-swaybars to have the car balanced with just enough throttle to maintain speed thru the apex of a corner. As you slowly approached the limits it would just make a larger radius. The front didn't loosen more than the rears straightening out the turn, and the rears didn't loosen up more causing the rear to come around. Usually did this with the swaybar disconnected and checked the springs first to make sure thay were matched. Then the swaybars. When setting the swaybars I get them balanced, then increase them noting the speed they let the car break loose, then back them off a little.

When I had my car setup, the turn in for a corner was NOT to turn the car. It was to adjust the slip angle of the rear. I would ease off the brakes and turn the steering. This would set the rear to rotating. When the car reached the correct angle I would add throttle transfer weight to the rear and stop the rotation, then stay in the throttle just enough to maintain my speed as the car went into a 4 wheel drift.

If the car is making too large a radius for the turn, you lift the throttle. The both slows the car AND takes wight off the rear so it will rotate more. You get back in the throttle just enough to maintain the drift when the car has rotated enough to keep the radius you want. If it is too tight, add throttle just enough so the weight transfers more to the rear and it increases speed a little pushing the front out. Letting off to balance and maintain the 4 wheel drift. This is steering with the throttle.

When exiting the corner you don't just stop the throttle and spin the tires as fun as that is. You add throttle to increase the raduis of the drift. You can add more as the radius increases and you slowly unwind the steering wheel until you are full throttle heading straight. How much you can increase depends on the line thru the corner and whether it is an early or late apex. The idea is to maintain maxium traction as the car straightens out.

But hey, that's just me and what I learned in my White 88 944 Turbo S going from the 2nd slowest to the car to beat autocrossing.

Also liked running Yokohama racing rain tires more than the R1 slicks everyone else as running. The Yoko rains had a softer edge allowing me to go closer to the limits and maybe a little over without spinning out. Especially learn how much to get back into the throttle on turn-in with that turbo power.

[sammyg2]

Several times we had a guy show up to orange county AX's in a 1973 RS, white with green accents and wheels.
The license plate said 1ST RS

I was told it really was the very 1st 1973 911 RS, a prototype shown in a European car show.

I figure it's worth a pile o'money but the owner said it was meant to be driven hard and if he balls it up, he'll just fix it.

[sammyg2]

found it, I think. the article says it went to Germany and then later sold to the third owner, but doesn't say if the third owner brought it back to the states.

Of the original 1590 RS's made, only about 12,000 of them still exist including an estimated 25 "first ones".

Jan 05 2019
by Elizabeth Puckett

Original Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 up for grabs

The first Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 made of the first batch of 500 is now looking for a new home after a complete restoration and lots of racing history behind it

The very first of the 500 examples of the 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 cars, and 1,590 total built is up for grabs through the Silverstone Auctions’ Autosport International Sale this month. This car has a crazy amount of motorsports history behind it, and will be one heck of a purchase for a lucky Porsche enthusiast out there.

According to the auction’s site, this 911 Carrera RS 2.7 was initially delivered to the United States where it was sold to its first owner. It features a slick Grand Prix White paint job with green lettering, Fuchs wheels, and the Touring specification. A few years later, in 1986, the car was bought by Wolfram Thonemann, president of the German Classic Porsche 911 Club, and imported to Germany.

Thonemann entered the car in a number of motorsports events around Germany and Europe while he owned it - it even earned the Europa Cup Class 6 Championship in 1987. The car changed hands again in 1996 and the third owner took it out to rally events, until the car was retired from racing in 2017, and was given a proper restoration after all its hard work on the track.

The 1973 variant of the 911 Carrera RS 2.7 was rated at 210-horsepower coming through its 2.7-liter flat-six engine. Backing the engine is a five-speed manual transmission, and the combo gives the car the ability to sprint to 60 miles per hour in only 5.5-seconds, and has a top speed of 149 mph. Slowing the Porsche down are four-wheel disc brakes, and it rides on an independent suspension.

Interestingly enough, this is not the only of its kind for sale right now. After searching around on the Dupont Registry, we found another one, with the only difference being the accent colors, for sales with an asking price of over three-quarters of a million dollars. This listing only shows an estimate of up to $484,000, so the bidding wars could escalate pretty quickly on this one.

https://www.autoclassics.com/posts/news/first-911-carrera-rs