Please get the Motorcycles off of Our Bike Trails

[Jeff Higgins]

I know this is a controversial topic, and I have been rather torn over it myself. I'm referring to modern "e-bikes" and their use on bicycle trails. I believe it is time to ban them across the board from any and all bicycle trails. I'm fine with them in the bike lanes adjacent to public roads, just not on dedicated bike paths.

I'm now through my seventh month of my return to cycling. I ride virtually every day, a mix of bike lanes and bike paths, and some roads lacking bike lanes (although i do my best to avoid those). I've made a few observations in these seven months.

The most valid argument for the e-bike, and one I have made myself, is that they allow people of disparate fitness and ability to ride together. Maybe a husband is an avid cyclist and the wife is not, maybe an older guy wants to keep up with a younger friend, or son, or whatever. I'm here to tell you, however, I simply do not see these people on the bike trail. My seat of the pants guesstimate would be that less than 1% of those I see on the bike trail fit this description.

What I do see on the bike trails are those that are flagrantly breaking every law, every rule for the use of an e-bike on those trails. I believe our trails are restricted to class 1 and class 2 bikes. The speed limit on all of our local trails is 15 mph. Hah! Again, a seat of the pants guestimate, but I would suggest that 90% of e-bike riders are exceeding that speed limit. Most of them by quite a lot. I understand that pedal assist stops at 20 mph on class 1 and 2, 28 mph on class 3. That's still 1/3 again the speed limit even on the slowest two classes, and darn near double on the fastest class.

Never mind any of those inconvenient technicalities, though. People are riding those clearly illegal class 3 bikes with impunity. The class 1 and 2 bikes have simple hacks available to increase their pedal assist speeds as well. Every day I see riders ripping down the bike trail at well over 30 mph, some at least 40 mph. Plus, I see clearly illegal electric stand-up scooters (skateboards with handlebars) and these mono-wheel lean forward to go forward and backwards to go backwards things on our trails every day. The attitude is that if it's electric, I can use it on the bike path.

The speed differential between these and pedal powered bikes is bad enough. How about the stroller moms, the little kids on training wheels, or their little walking bikes? How about the dog walkers, the joggers, and those out for a pleasant stroll? The bike path is supposed to be everyone's safe haven from the speeds of motorized traffic. Bike paths, under current conditions of allowing e-bikes, no longer serve that purpose.

I have to say, this is yet another case where they have been given an inch and have taken a mile. The bad actors have ruined it for the responsible riders who follow the rules. And, unfortunately, the former are in the majority and the latter in the (very small) minority. Another case where the 90% have ruined it for the 10%.

So, I can't believe I'm saying this, but after seven months of darn near getting run over by e-bikes ripping past me at 40 mph (with no audible warning, no bell, no "on your left", nothing) I've had it. After coming upon more than one instance in which such an e-bike rider did actually hit someone, I've had it. This experiment in allowing some e-bikes on the bike trails has failed. Human nature has, once again, reared its ugly head. It's now become apparent that the only way to keep these trails safe for pedestrians and pedal bike riders is to bannish all motor vehicles back to the streets. We can thank those self centered ass holes who seem to have to take advantage of everything.

[jyl]

Hear hear. Show me an actually disabled person using the wonders of e-technology to experience the beauty of nature and I'll eat my hat. Its all a bunch of yahoos and lazy fat fks.

[herr_oberst]

I'm all for that mup ban. I cringe seeing one of those small-tire ebikes coming at me at 30 mph with the kid behind the bars weaving, staring out into space, looking down.....no helmet, oblivious to the violence that could occur at a crash at a combined 50 or 55 mph.
In a discussion with a friend, apparently young kids have no desire to own a pedal bike. They all want ebikes, and they seem to be getting their way.

[masraum]

When we lived near downtown Houston, we would occasionally take our 11# mini dachshund down to the park. The park had a mix of wide sidewalks where it was OK to walk, roller blade, or cycle. They also had some paths that were more narrow and hard packed sand/gravel where cyclists were not allowed. We tried to mostly keep to the walking paths to avoid any incidents with cyclists. But every time we walked on the walking paths we ran into cyclists (not the serious cyclists on road bikes in Lycraw, just the casual folks on city bikes and mountain bikes out for a cruise. We had to be on the look out for them to make sure that we didn't have any issues with them hitting us or the dog.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by jyl

Hear hear. Show me an actually disabled person using the wonders of e-technology to experience the beauty of nature and I'll eat my hat. Its all a bunch of yahoos and lazy fat fks.

I saw one video the other day from England. a MAMIL on a trail with a road bike started giving some guy serious crap about having an ebike on a trail. Turned out that the guy was a paraplegic with a narrow 3 wheel ebike. I have no doubt that's the exception rather than the rule.

[porsche tech]

Recently banned from the miles and miles of “leisure trails” in our hood. Some of those things are fast!

[stevej37]

I use the 'rails to trails' often around here. I could count on one hand the number of speeding bikes or e-bikes that I have seen. 15 mph or less is the norm.

What bothers me more are the bikers that feel they need to ride side-by-side on a narrow trail and force the oncoming bikers to almost stop to clear them.
Or the person with their dog on a 12 ft leash stretched across the trail. LOL

[Scott Douglas]

I ride in our 'hood a lot. Have a parking pass for the beach parking but, the e-bikes on the path down there are more than a hazard. You can ride from Newport Beach all the way up to Seal Beach on a 'trail/path' now. With the 'rich' kids on e-bikes it's really not that much fun any more. I've seen them wearing full face motorcycle helmets, so crashing them out to teach them a lesson isn't going to happen. Taking the bike down to the beach used to be fun and something I looked forward to on the really nice days. Now, not so much. The number of e-bikes parked at the racks during the jr life guard training times is astounding, as it's obvious if you don't have one you're not one of the 'cool kids'.
I've seen the CHP down in the State Beach area on motorcycles with radar guns. Maybe a few speeding tickets with mandatory court appearances might help.

[Gogar]

Come to Denver and you can watch them do it on the actual streets too. It's very frustrating, almost as frustrating as watching the takeover kids on dirt bikes and four wheelers blocking off intersections for each other.

[pmax]

[911 Rod]

Our lake drive is chaos as the road is shared with cars, people, bikes and ebikes.
I'm amazed no one has been hurt with the speed of the ebikes scooters etc.

[Baz]

Jeff......are you voicing your concerns to any area factions on this topic?

If so, what has been the response?

Who oversees the regulatory aspects of these trails where there is a problem?

Thanks!

[ryans65]

Funny I live in a pretty bike friendly area and I've only had problems with ****head road bikers not obeying ANY of the rules of the road. I guess once that spandex with all your sponsors gets put on one is suddenly immune from stop signs, turn signals, riding in the road when there's a bike lane, etc. I say ban them all!

[911 Rod]

Get off my lawn!

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I know this is a controversial topic, and I have been rather torn over it myself. I'm referring to modern "e-bikes" and their use on bicycle trails. I believe it is time to ban them across the board from any and all bicycle trails. I'm fine with them in the bike lanes adjacent to public roads, just not on dedicated bike paths.

I'm now through my seventh month of my return to cycling. I ride virtually every day, a mix of bike lanes and bike paths, and some roads lacking bike lanes (although i do my best to avoid those). I've made a few observations in these seven months.

The most valid argument for the e-bike, and one I have made myself, is that they allow people of disparate fitness and ability to ride together. Maybe a husband is an avid cyclist and the wife is not, maybe an older guy wants to keep up with a younger friend, or son, or whatever. I'm here to tell you, however, I simply do not see these people on the bike trail. My seat of the pants guesstimate would be that less than 1% of those I see on the bike trail fit this description.

What I do see on the bike trails are those that are flagrantly breaking every law, every rule for the use of an e-bike on those trails. I believe our trails are restricted to class 1 and class 2 bikes. The speed limit on all of our local trails is 15 mph. Hah! Again, a seat of the pants guestimate, but I would suggest that 90% of e-bike riders are exceeding that speed limit. Most of them by quite a lot. I understand that pedal assist stops at 20 mph on class 1 and 2, 28 mph on class 3. That's still 1/3 again the speed limit even on the slowest two classes, and darn near double on the fastest class.

Never mind any of those inconvenient technicalities, though. People are riding those clearly illegal class 3 bikes with impunity. The class 1 and 2 bikes have simple hacks available to increase their pedal assist speeds as well. Every day I see riders ripping down the bike trail at well over 30 mph, some at least 40 mph. Plus, I see clearly illegal electric stand-up scooters (skateboards with handlebars) and these mono-wheel lean forward to go forward and backwards to go backwards things on our trails every day. The attitude is that if it's electric, I can use it on the bike path.

The speed differential between these and pedal powered bikes is bad enough. How about the stroller moms, the little kids on training wheels, or their little walking bikes? How about the dog walkers, the joggers, and those out for a pleasant stroll? The bike path is supposed to be everyone's safe haven from the speeds of motorized traffic. Bike paths, under current conditions of allowing e-bikes, no longer serve that purpose.

I have to say, this is yet another case where they have been given an inch and have taken a mile. The bad actors have ruined it for the responsible riders who follow the rules. And, unfortunately, the former are in the majority and the latter in the (very small) minority. Another case where the 90% have ruined it for the 10%.

So, I can't believe I'm saying this, but after seven months of darn near getting run over by e-bikes ripping past me at 40 mph (with no audible warning, no bell, no "on your left", nothing) I've had it. After coming upon more than one instance in which such an e-bike rider did actually hit someone, I've had it. This experiment in allowing some e-bikes on the bike trails has failed. Human nature has, once again, reared its ugly head. It's now become apparent that the only way to keep these trails safe for pedestrians and pedal bike riders is to bannish all motor vehicles back to the streets. We can thank those self centered ass holes who seem to have to take advantage of everything.

I sort of agree, many e-bike users are fine but there are 2 types that aren't
1) younger riders that are going way too fast, not keeping right and are generally oblivious to anyone else
2) older riders that are just generally oblivious and unaware of the etiquette involved.


e- scooters are in group 1 for the most part

but those are just additional hazards to the dog walkers w/ no or long leashes, walkers that don't keep right and don't acknowledge warning because of headphones or conversation or ignorance, little mothers w/ a pram, dog and multiple other children to contend w/ and all the others totally unaware of their surroundings

I find it far more relaxing to ride w/ the cars & trucks most of the time

[Dixie]

Just think of e-bikes as payback for riding in a five abreast pack, going ten miles an hour, clogging up the entire secondary road lane for miles.

[rattlsnak]

So, do you want to ban any car that goes over 55mph? (or what ever the speed limit is where you live). It's not the product. It's the few who drive/ride carelessly. I have an ebike (pedal assist) Mtn bike and I never blast past people or ride it reckless. Actually, i ride it with a LOT care than i do my normal bike.

I will agree that 90% of the rule breakers are young kids though. My daughter hit a 12 year old with her car a few weeks ago. She was at a red light, turning right, looked both ways and then was waiting for a car to drive past so she could turn right and that kid came barreling down the sidewalk and just ripped across the intersetion right when she puller out. No helmet, crocs and was easily going 30 mph on the sidewalk. He is VERY lucky he didnt get seriously hurt but his parents went ballistic - demanding we pay for a new scooter (@$1,200) and his medical bills and mental trauma. It went back and forth for a few weeks and I finally said, I'll see you in court. Apparently his lawyer wouldn't take the case because the kid was in the wrong on multiple accounts.

[Bill Douglas]

Kid on the sidewalk. There is a high school boy in the area who has a Surron type electric (motorbike?) bike that he rides to school. He was keeping pace with the cars on the road as he was riding on the footpath. Umm, sure makes it hard work reversing out of your driveway. And the other day he was doing impressive wheelstands down the footpath. Around here E-bikes that you have to do some form of pedalling are considered E-bikes - bicycles in other words. Not an electric dirt bike. An accident waiting to happen. And the car driver may be innocent but they are still involved and it doesn't look good on their record. Including what the insurance companies think of it too.

[look 171]

I have to deal with them too, not so much kids on the e bike but the dog lovers that WILL not pull that goddamn thing to their side of the road. I have to take about 5 miles of bike trail to avoid rush hour bumper to bumper traffic to my regular riding route. Weekends, I don't even try to go on the bike path due to the 5 people walking abreast taking over the entire passage was talking with coffee in hand. Did I mentioned the dogs? I am no angle, blow stops with 15 guys hauling ass doing 30 across residential areas for years but I do hate the fact some of the road rider miss the later part of the law and only uphold the first part. They are fat, old, and slow talking, taking up the entire street. No one seems to accept that they are suppose use the right of the lane when its safe to do so and take up the entire lane only when necessary. Gives us a bad name. How aobut those rented electric scooters. They are all over the streets, Usually near or on the outside of downtown, AKA as hipsterville. Really We don't see them in the outer parts, or suburbs. I love to see those guys get hit, them and those idiots on their bikes

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Kid on the sidewalk. There is a high school boy in the area who has a Surron type electric (motorbike?) bike that he rides to school. He was keeping pace with the cars on the road as he was riding on the footpath. Umm, sure makes it hard work reversing out of your driveway. And the other day he was doing impressive wheelstands down the footpath. Around here E-bikes that you have to do some form of pedalling are considered E-bikes - bicycles in other words. Not an electric dirt bike. An accident waiting to happen. And the car driver may be innocent but they are still involved and it doesn't look good on their record. Including what the insurance companies think of it too.

There is a very high percentage is you are involved in an accident with a bike electric or not, you are in a world of hurt.

E bike caught on sidewalk, or doing stupid **** at speed, confiscated, huge fine and goes on one's driving record. for kids under age, parents get the huge fine, and kids will not be able to get their lic until 25. That will stop it some.