I need one! 2010 911 SC

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I suppose some would say the 928 is evolved from the 944 that came from the 924 (a Volkswagon)?

The 928 is actually an entirely new fresh sheet of paper design, and is in fact the first "all Porsche Porsche." Of course that's just another deflection though. That the 911 has an old and tired body design has nothing to do with the 928.

The 911 is based on the VW Beetle, shares it's configuration, and used an evolved version of it's engine. Facts.

Facts that drive 911 fans into a frothing lather.

[berettafan]

the 924 was worse than a vw...it had Audi in it!!!

[berettafan]

i don't care that the 911 came from humble beginnings. honestly.

i'd love a 928 as well even though it strikes me as a ticking time bomb of non-DIY friendly technology. yup, i'd love to own both!

and a 944 turbo.

and a 930.

and a GT3RS.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by berettafan

i don't care that the 911 came from humble beginnings. honestly.

i'd love a 928 as well even though it strikes me as a ticking time bomb of non-DIY friendly technology. yup, i'd love to own both!

and a 944 turbo.

and a 930.

and a GT3RS.

Same here, on all counts.

928s are a bear to DIY, but only because the car is assembled like an onion. In layers. Fixing them is actually quite easy, it's just extremely time consuming to get to some systems. 911s are not much different.

[Schumi]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I suppose some would say the 928 is evolved from the 944 that came from the 924 (a Volkswagon)?

I've got a bookshelf full of literature on the history of Porsche's models.

The 924 was developed for Volkswagon, and the 928 was developed near the same time for Porsche, but they were, at that time, in no way related. Not by chassis, not by engine, nothing.

The 928 was all original Porsche design- designed for fear the 911 was too old and had no life left in it. We have Herr Schultz to thank for the 911 still being here- it would have ended production around 1984 if it wasn't for him. The 928 was going to continue through the 80's along with the new 944 and that was it.

The 944 evolved from the 924, but also from the 928 in the form of it's engine architecture.

928 came first. It has a bigger place in Porsche development history than many people give it credit for.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by Schumi

The 944 evolved from the 924, but also from the 928 in the form of it's engine architecture.

And all three were "related" in that they located the transmission in the rear in order to have the optimum front-to-rear weight balance.

[KNS]

I'm going to jump into the love fest. I kind of wish Porsche would retire the 911, it's an old design. The only reason they don't is on going *demand* and continued healthy sales. The thing makes plenty of money for the company, something the 928 (which I would not mind owning one day) couldn't do.

If the 928, fantastic GT car that it is, replaced the 911 like Porsche wanted it to in the 70's, the 911 would have been history a long time ago, but sales numbers of both cars became the deciding factor in the long run.

[m21sniper]

I honestly think that Porsche never built the 928 that 911 fans would embrace.

For one thing, they needed to build one that said "Turbo" on the back- they never did.
For another, they needed to put it on a diet and introduce a club sport/RS model. They never did.

A 2900lb, 350rwhp 928 Turbo would have been a ferocious beast and would have won over a LOT of 911 fans. I also think a lot of 911 fans are only actually fans because the car says "Porsche" on it. For many Porsche owners it's nothing more than a sign of status. They wouldn't care what the car looked like as long as it was a six figure exclusive sports car that said Porsche on it.

It's all history now, but i think Porsche really needs to replace the 911 with something new. I think that if they had put the effort into replacing it that they put into designing the Panamera and Cayenne they could come up with someting truly magical.

Fortune favors the bold, but Porsche has not been bold in a long time...

[island911]

Well, snipe, I can tell you that I wasn't trying to deflect. --just trying to illustrate to you, by example, just how ridiculous your claim is. --Sure, the 911 has the same configuration as the VW bug . . .just as the 928 has the same configuration as a Model-T.

Btw, what would "something new" be?

[island911]

Originally Posted by KNS

... the 911, it's an old design. ...

Don't confuse/commingle 'design' with 'configuration.' The 911 as been gone thru major redesigns. I would be surprised if any parts on a 997 are exchangeable with those of a 1972 911.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by turbocarrera

I would argue they've been extremely bold with the 911. How many companies would have the cojones/engineering chops to keep a "fundamentally flawed" model in the lineup for 45 years.

I think that's just fear the fear that they cannot make a better car that keeps the 911 around.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by island911

Well, snipe, I can tell you that I wasn't trying to deflect. --just trying to illustrate to you, by example, just how ridiculous your claim is. --Sure, the 911 has the same configuration as the VW bug . . .just as the 928 has the same configuration as a Model-T.

Btw, what would "something new" be?

The 911 is based on the VW beetle man, come on....

What is something "new"?

Well, when the 928 was new it pioneered 4 wheel passive steering. It used a rear mounted LSD transaxle to obtain a perfect 50/50 weight balance- a config. that has since been copied by countless sports cars, including all the C-5 and newer vettes IIRC.

To me i think Porsche should have made the Carerra GT out of more inexpensive and conventional sheet metal/frame materials and used an evolved legacy twin turbo flat 6 to keep the price down, and used that to replace the 911.

Just imagine a $150,000 Carerra GT Turbo. And a $90,000 N/A model. Porsche would sell a LOT of those.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by turbocarrera

So you'd agree that making a better car than the 911 is extremely difficult - even for the greatest automotive engineering firm there is?

If you read my comments i state outright that the 911 is a brilliant machine, my complaint is that it is old and boring to look at, and that it has always reminded a lot of people of the lines of the VW beetle.

And no, i don't think it would be very difficult to replace, i think it would just take courage.

[island911]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

... to obtain a perfect 50/50 weight balance- a config. that has since been copied by countless sports cars, including all the C-5 and newer vettes IIRC. ...

What's perfect about 50/50 weight balance? --I suppose it's good for beginner drivers.

Just a few thoughts... with a 2wd drive car, rear weight biased, rear drive gives best fwd traction. Braking is on all wheels, again giving a rear weight biased car an advantage over a front weight biased car. Fighter-planes designs remove stability to gain maneuverability.

[Schumi]

Besides engine placement, a 997 911 is as far away from a VW beetle as my Toyota Corolla.

The new 911's are not 911's. They are Porsche sportscars with the same name as the original, air cooled model. But they do not have torsion bars. They are not air cooled.

The VW derivativeness ended with the 993.

Notice how Porsche even has strewn away from using the number '911' as much after the 996- they use the name Carrera. This goes with their naming scheme:

Carrera
Cayman
Cayenne
Panamera

The Carrera name has been used since the 996 as Porsche's way of getting away from dealing with the 911.

But I do not see them getting rid of the rear-engined layout. It's too practical- a mid engine 911 could not have rear seats.

I do however see Porsche introduction a mid-engined variant of the 911- a new top tier model priced in the $180K range to compete with the $240k ferraris. And people paying 180K for a car aren't caring about the lack of backseats.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by island911

What's perfect about 50/50 weight balance? --I suppose it's good for beginner drivers.

Just a few thoughts... with a 2wd drive car, rear weight biased, rear drive gives best fwd traction. Braking is on all wheels, again giving a rear weight biased car an advantage over a front weight biased car. Fighter-planes designs remove stability to gain maneuverability.

Is this supposed to be a serious response?

Schumi there is absolutely nothing 'practical' about a rear engine layout. Just look at pretty much every other car on the road. 'Practical' for a RWD car is front engine with rear transaxle and a 50/50 weight balance for nuetral handling and lots of interior room.

PS: I know the 911 is no longer the 911 let alone the VW beetle. But the body still retains most of the same familiar VW beetle styling cues that the 911 has always had.

[island911]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Is this supposed to be a serious response?....

Funny; I was questioning (to myself) if your contentions were/are serious. Seems like you just wanted to muck-up a positive thread on a re-born 911SC. ...w/ a bunch of ill-founded remarks about the design and configuration of cars.

Hey, here's an idea... octagonal wheels! ..The whole "Round" wheel thing is so old - I'm really bored with it. Why can't someone come out with something NEW ... something different?

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

The family resemblance is unmistakable.

I agree. Might as well be looking in a mirror.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by island911

Funny; I was questioning (to myself) if your contentions were/are serious. Seems like you just wanted to muck-up a positive thread on a re-born 911SC. ...w/ a bunch of ill-founded remarks about the design and configuration of cars.

If youre really trying to argue that a rear weight bias is safer or more desirable than a 50/50 nuetral bias you are beyond help.

[island911]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

If youre really trying to argue that a rear weight bias is safer or more desirable than a 50/50 nuetral bias you are beyond help.

Tell that to the F1 engineers.