Printed Circuit Board Question.

[Joeaksa]

Turn the flash off on the camera, and back up just a bit on the distance, then take a couple more photos.

The solder on the board where someone messed with it does not look good. Hope he did not peal up the connecting material. This is not rocket science and you might need a de-soldering tool (under $15 at Radio shack) to clear away the crap and do it right.

[Gogar]

Thanks, Joe. It's camera phone, and it's all I had in the heat of the moment.

Since those pics I've cleaned up the mess on the back of the board and everything's looking better.

[crustychief]

Sometimes solder can flow through the holes on a multi-layer board and make unintentional contact with a foil run or component on the other side of the board. Other than that, it looks like you are on the right track with the relay.

[red-beard]

Yep, sounds about right

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by crustychief

Sometimes solder can flow through the holes on a multi-layer board and make unintentional contact with a foil run or component on the other side of the board. Other than that, it looks like you are on the right track with the relay.

The front-side traces on under the relays were just 'redundancies' of the bottom-side traces, so I don't believe it's an issue.

Thank you!

[Gogar]

Oh yeah, sorry, James.

[dad911]

You could conect it and measure the voltage at the terminals for the relay coil to be sure.

But my guess is it would be a safe assumption that the control voltages should be the same.

Should document the wrong parts and ***** to the manufacturer. Try to get them to send you a new board.

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Oh yeah, sorry, James.

I'd doubletap her anytime... Regardless of what the little piece of paper says.



Jeremy... The question still stands as to why you need a coffee machine that costs $600 to fix....

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Jeremy... The question still stands as to why you need a coffee machine that costs $600 to fix....

Why must almost everyone on this board drive cars for which the cheapest replacement engine costs almost $10,000?

If this DIY+Pelican repair goes well, I"ll be in it for $44 + my time/education from it all (not including the $170 I gave the "professional.")

[red-beard]

I won't give up my superautomatic!

[lm6y]

I felt kinda guilty for spending $120 on my Bunn. Thanks for making me feel better Jeremy!

[Gogar]

Okay, so here's the likely conclusion to this tale of woe and electronic repair and service, and Italians, and the Internet, and good crema.

So:

As mentioned before, the ORIGINAL relays were Hongfa SPDT power relays.

The important stats: 16A contact rating, 12V DC coil voltage.

LUIGI the coffee tech replaced a (supposedly bad) relay with a

Potter & Brumsfield SPDT relay with a

24Volt DC coil voltage, and . . . .

a 10A rating.

Looks the same. NOT the same.




Turns out the relay Luigi installed probably went bad after just a few cycles. Why would he not put in a higher amperage relay? Lazy? Wanted to use one off his shelf?


Whatever.


I ordered 2 Siemens SPDT relays from DigiKey, with

12 Volt DC coil voltage, and a 16A contact rating. (crazy, I know.)

I replaced BOTH of the old relays, threw the board back in, (the new ones are a nice Continental orange color, by the way.)



and the machine works fine.

Works just fine. Yeah that's right.

Here's a little steam for ya.




Made myself a nice double espresso, temp is just about perfect!




THANKS YOU GUYS. Another good example of the value of this place. (Surprisingly No one replied to my posting on cbrforum.com.)



Also thanks to stogie25 who is a legit electronics guy and offered to help, I really appreciate it.

[Gogar]

So, now I'm at a point where I do need help again:


What's your opinion about the original "Coffee Tech" service guy?

Do I have any recourse with him, or should I let it go?

I spent $170 (2 hours @$85). He properly diagnosed the "bad coffee temperature sensor."

Because when you turn the machine on it says "Warning: Bad coffee temperature sensor."


But about this whole "relay" business, should I be a d*ck and go over there and yell? Try to get some dough back? Ask for some free coffee?

Or let it go?

I'm glad I learned some stuff, but I'm just miffed I paid $170 to have him fuch up my machine.


You know with The $630 I "saved" by not buying a new circuit board I could get one of those bargain bin AR-15s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Joeaksa]

Sorry but I would contact the repair facility, or the main office here in the states and tell them what happened.

This is clearly not acceptable. Either he is an idiot or they are telling him to do this to sell more parts or machines. Either way its not right. Where you go from there depends on their response.

Joe A

[TechnoViking]

Originally Posted by Gogar

As mentioned before, the ORIGINAL relays were Hongfa SPDT power relays.

The important stats: 16A contact rating, 12V DC coil voltage.

LUIGI the coffee tech replaced a (supposedly bad) relay with a

Potter & Brumsfield SPDT relay with a

24Volt DC coil voltage, and . . . .

a 10A rating.

Looks the same. NOT the same.

That's a big screw up.

You can get away with using the 16A in place of the 10A (usually) so maybe someone told him they were interchangeable. But that does not excuse the wrong coil voltage, so I'm guessing he does not grasp that the parts are very different. Anyway, Luigi owes you an apology.

Good troubleshooting, man. Nice job on the fix.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by Martin Smith

You can get away with using the 16A in place of the 10A (usually) so maybe someone told him they were interchangeable.

Maybe. Just to be clear, he replaced a 16A relay with a 10A, so it probably gave it up after just a while.

[Gogar]

bump

[BRPORSCHE]

I see your enjoying something else other then your coffee.

[1990C4S]

Tell them the relay overheated, the machine burned up, and caused a fire in your kitchen. But you will settle for a $750 in-store credit.

Seriously, I doubt they will even admit to making an error. I guess if they confess and offer something up take it, but I don't see it as likely.

[porsche4life]

I'd enjoy a her much more than the coffee....