V-6 engines begin long fade into history

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by lm6y

All of these posts are moot. Exit wound has decided for all of us what we need, and can have. Thank You oh Wise One. We will try to see the errors of our ways.

Exactly.

[VenezianBlau 87]

My (gone) VR6 (24 V) Jetta did have a sweet motor, along with the 6 speed manual. Not really a "V" thankfully. Problem was the front wheel drive. Can't imagine why anyone would add more power.

Also, I hate 4-cylinder buzzing sounds.

I love the M54 3.0L six in my used Bimmer. It's a staid (yet quiet) workhorse. And not too hard to work around with my ape-like hands! More power than I need even at 231hp.

I love this country! A nice Bimmer is "old" at 60K and I can pick it up for the price of a new crapmobile.

[Monza_dh]

I have three variations of the six: Flat in the 911, straight in my 330i DD and my wifes v6 in her ML320, which is a great engine BTW. I think 6 is all you need.

And you gotta love the sound of this old V6:

[dd74]

We also have an ML 320. But like the man from Leeds might suggest, turbo diesel V6s are a whole 'nother ball game from gas-powered V6s.

And to point, I thought this thread was focused on gas V6s, not inline or flat sixes or diesel V6s --

The V6 in the Buick Grand National series cars was very impressive, IIRC. The V6 in the Ferrari Dino...also impressive.

Otherwise...?

[porsche4life]

Hate to do this... But the VR6.... Is not a V which makes it mildly irrelevant guys....

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Hate to do this... But the VR6.... Is not a V which makes it mildly irrelevant guys...

I hate to do this, but the staggering of the cylinders still imparts torsional vibration that does not exist when the cylinders are in-line or opposed. Albeit a shallow one, it is still a V.

[exitwound]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

I hate to do this, but the staggering of the cylinders still imparts torsional vibration that does not exist when the cylinders are in-line or opposed. Albeit a shallow one, it is still a V.

From AutoZine Technical School - Engine :

For conventional V6, a narrow 15° Vee angle would have required extraordinarily large spray angle between split crank pins, hence special strengthening. However, in contrast to many believes, VR6’s crankshaft is more like an inline-6. It has 7 main bearings and independent crank throws for each cylinder, (this is possible because VR6 is longer than a conventional V6), thus avoid the crank pin problem.

Don’t think a 15° V6 must generate a lot of vibration ! on the contrary, the VR6 is inherently a well-balanced configuration because it is nearly identical to an inline-6, just differs from the latter by a very narrow angle separating each pair of 3 cylinders. As a result, it generates no end-to-end vibration like conventional V6s and is actually nearly as smooth as an inline-6.

[cashflyer]

nearly as smooth as an inline-6.
nearly as smooth
nearly

[dd74]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

nearly as smooth as an inline-6.
nearly as smooth
nearly

+1 (and not nearly +1).

[911pcars]

MB bases their entire powertrain lineup on their modular V6 and V8 engines. I don't see them scrapping them soon. Too much invested in engineering, design and manufacturing at this point.

Maybe we shouldn't be hung up too much on the details (e.g. no. of cylinders, CID, sound and such). If a car can get to 60 in 4 seconds and 150 mph in 13 seconds, does it really matter how many cylinders are pushing it or how much power/torque it produces? As for sound, modern audio devices can replicate almost any sound. Personally, I wouldn't mind my 911 alternately sounding like a V12 Ferrari, 917 Porsche, 3.8 liter cup car or maybe a noise-cancellation mode while gingerly driving home to the hood at 2am.

I wonder what the hot rodders of years gone by talked about when they had steam-powered vehicles? Wood species for increased BTUs?

Sherwood

[teenerted1]

uh, we are really supposed to take the word from someone in DETROIT on what the car buying public wants? come on where are all these companies from that we just bailed out?

a while ago they said the small car is dead...then the large car is dead...then the 4banger is dead...then the big v8 is dead...now the v6 is dead?

there is a market somewhere for all kinds of cars/engine platforms...the trick is to build enough of everyone the market can handle...build too many, company screwed...not enough, the customer is screwed...

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by VenezianBlau 87

Also, I hate 4-cylinder buzzing sounds.

Tell me about it. A 4 cyl engine with a performance exhaust sounds like a lawnmower or something.

Just hideous.

Originally Posted by 911pcars

MB bases their entire powertrain lineup on their modular V6 and V8 engines. I don't see them scrapping them soon. Too much invested in engineering, design and manufacturing at this point.

Maybe we shouldn't be hung up too much on the details (e.g. no. of cylinders, CID, sound and such). If a car can get to 60 in 4 seconds and 150 mph in 13 seconds, does it really matter how many cylinders are pushing it or how much power/torque it produces? As for sound, modern audio devices can replicate almost any sound. Personally, I wouldn't mind my 911 alternately sounding like a V12 Ferrari, 917 Porsche, 3.8 liter cup car or maybe a noise-cancellation mode while gingerly driving home to the hood at 2am.

I wonder what the hot rodders of years gone by talked about when they had steam-powered vehicles? Wood species for increased BTUs?

Sherwood

It matters. Nothing sounds like a V-8 (or larger) engine. Six cyls fail miserably...and 4 cyls are total abortions when it comes to the "music to my ears" test.

[onewhippedpuppy]

These threads about how we all need to be driving 120 HP 4 banger cars amuse me. On a Porsche BBS no less!

I have to agree with Sniper, its damn hard to beat the sound of a V8. I've owned a number of very good 4 cylinder turbo cars, but nothing could compare to the sound of my BMW 540i, or my 390 HP supercharged V8 Jaguar XJR. V8 undertone with the supercharger whine, damn I miss that car..... The only exception is Italy, where everything sounds like sex. Alfa V6 and 4 cylinders sound spectacular.

In regards to need, who buys based solely on that? Especially in this crowd. The aforementioned XJR was total overkill, but it made me laugh like a schoolgirl when I mashed the pedal.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Monza_dh

I have three variations of the six: Flat in the 911, straight in my 330i DD and my wifes v6 in her ML320, which is a great engine BTW. I think 6 is all you need.

Hey: I have the same three cars. What are the odds?

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

It matters. Nothing sounds like a V-8 (or larger) engine. Six cyls fail miserably...

Not always. The V6 in my old Alfa Romeo GTV6 (non-turbo) sounded pretty darn good at higher revs.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Six cyls fail miserably...and 4 cyls are total abortions when it comes to the "music to my ears" test.

You have clearly never heard the music of a 4-pot Alfa Guilia.

You have no idea what you are missing.

[jyl]

Since you can find great-sounding examples with every engine configuration from I-4 to V-12, I conclude the "music" is due as much to exhaust system as to number and layout of cylinders.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Since you can find great-sounding examples with every engine configuration from I-4 to V-12, I conclude the "music" is due as much to exhaust system as to number and layout of cylinders.

A Honda I-4 will never sound like an Alfa. Even my 951 sounded so badly with a high quality stainless exhaust and test pipe that I reinstalled the stock system. The Italians have some special magic.

[svandamme]

i'll take the sound of flat-6 with a hot MFI setup over any V8-rumble..

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by svandamme

i'll take the sound of flat-6 with a hot MFI setup over any V8-rumble..

Well...I love the factory exhaust of the Bullitt Mustang...a special cross over pipe & mufflers for that model alone...tuned by Ford to sound like the movie car. Seriously...they listened to the movie soundtrack, played with various exhaust set-ups before deciding on the one for the Bullitt model.

On the other hand, it isn't the exhaust note sound of the old 911S I miss...the moan/shriek of the tuned MFI intake stacks as the car approached redline was indeed sweet music.

To each his own...(edit)I consider myself fortunate to be able to have enjoyed both the V-8 rumble and the MFI sound.

Another sound I enjoyed was three deuces on a Pontiac GTO...sucking air & dead dinosaurs at 1400 cfm!

Stijn...a shame it isn't practical to bring your S targa to Oregon...I'd be delighted to let you listen to a V-8 exhaust over our nearby mountain pass.