Toyota unintended acceleration and recalls, Part 2

[HarryD]

Perosnally, I think this is a software issue in the drive by wire systems.

... just hit the brakes

Good move. In just about all cases the brakes in staock vehicles should be able to overwhelm the motor.

and shut the ignition. ...

Bad idea. If you turn the key you may lock the steering wheel. Better off putting car in neutral letting the engine run up to the rev limiter.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Tim Walsh

Wide Open throttle == no vacuum for the brakes. No vacuum == needs more effort. More effort needed == Sheeple think the brakes are broken. VAG actually got this one right. My '05 GTI is DBW. As soon as you hit the brakes, the ECU sends an idle signal to the throttle. Annoyed the crap out of my when I was autocrossing it since I couldn't left foot brake.

Yeah, forget all this electronic bullspit.

I WANT CABLES. Mechanically linked cables.

That is all.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Perosnally, I think this is a software issue in the drive by wire systems.



Good move. In just about all cases the brakes in staock vehicles should be able to overwhelm the motor.

.

Not at WOT. As previous poster mentioned, at WOT you have- ZERO- brake vacuum. You'd have manual brakes with a much shorter pedal. IOW, you'd have very little braking power.

Best bet? Nuetral and pray, i guess.

[Tim Walsh]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Yeah, forget all this electronic bullspit.

I WANT CABLES. Mechanically linked cables.

That is all.

Even in the most rudimentary of cars has boosted brakes of one sort or another, so you're still stuck with the WOT== no assist scenario.

Note on the key thing. Many cars don't have a key anymore, just a start/stop button. Supposedly if the car is moving it takes 3 seconds of holding it down to shut the car off(I don't own one so I can't say for sure)

Edit: I believe the proper response is neutral and mash the brakes like you're maxing the leg press and if you're good hold the start/stop button.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Tim Walsh

Even in the most rudimentary of cars has boosted brakes of one sort or another, so you're still stuck with the WOT== no assist scenario.

Actually, you're wrong about that. Some power brakes are not reliant on vacuum boost at all. I've owned at least one such car.

This is an issue that doesn't need to be an issue at all, really.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Tim Walsh

Edit: I believe the proper response is neutral and mash the brakes like you're maxing the leg press and if you're good hold the start/stop button.

Even if you can get the engine off you can use the vacuum in your reservoir for one emergency stop. But if you let the pedal up, at WOT, or with the car off, the power braking is kaput.

[Tim Walsh]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Even if you can get the engine off you can use the vacuum in your reservoir for one emergency stop. But if you let the pedal up, at WOT, or with the car off, the power braking is kaput.

True, though we're not your normal driver, or drive normal cars. (I can only think of some turbo cars, pre SC 911's and diesels that don't use a vacuum booster, a VERY small percentage of the automotive population) Also your average driver has no idea that if they let one even once their brakes go to crap.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

This is an issue that doesn't need to be an issue at all, really.

How do you figure?

[john70t]

Nobody here blinked an eye when I went off on a rant against GM's OnStar(manadatory on all new vehicles)- which can also unlock doors and shut down engines remotely.
Just think of the new and exciting possibilities, kids!

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Well, things get interesting. Originally it was the floor mats, then it was worn out pedals, now it affects new un-driven (un-worn) models and Toyota announces a sales freeze and plant shutdowns....... what's the scoop? What do you think?

. . .

The sticking accelerator pedal recall is separate from the on-going recall of Toyota and Lexus vehicles to reduce the risk of pedal entrapment by incorrect or out of place accessory floor mats. Approximately 1.7 million Toyota Division vehicles are subject to both separate recall actions.

Sounds like it is a defective component on the car, i.e. a defective accelerator pedal.

I wonder what company made the accelerator pedal, and where it was made?

[legion]

Originally Posted by john70t

Nobody here blinked an eye when I went off on a rant against GM's OnStar(manadatory on all new vehicles)- which can also unlock doors and shut down engines remotely.
Just think of the new and exciting possibilities, kids!

1) You can custom order any GM vehicle without OnStar.
2) Onstar has its own fuse. Ask me how I know.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

How do you figure?

Hydromatic brakes. They run off the power steering pump, and give full braking even under conditions of zero vacuum or positive boost.

My Buick T-Type turbo had hydromatic brakes. All of them did.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by legion

1) You can custom order any GM vehicle without OnStar.
2) Onstar has its own fuse. Ask me how I know.

Where is the fuze?

[Scuba Steve]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

They were pretty stand up on the SUV rusty frame issue. But this is way bigger.

Dad's Honda truck has an electronic throttle - no problems, but I just dont like it.

It is all on/off, on/off, on/off in very small increments.. Tough to be smooth.

The KIA rental I've got right now is like that. Also very annoying like any other US rental because there's no manual available! I'd rather be in the Peugeot I had in Costa Rica.

[legion]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Where is the fuze?

In the fuse block, and labeled "OnStar".

[Rick Lee]

I'll never buy a new car and certainly never a GM car. But if they ever start requiring OnStar on all cars in the US and I ever buy a car that has it, it will be dismantled as soon as I get it into my garage.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

But if they ever start requiring OnStar on all cars in the US and I ever buy a car that has it, it will be dismantled as soon as I get it into my garage.

is this a possibility? Or are you just saying?

[onewhippedpuppy]

After a little tinkering on my FJ80 I did a WOT run to check out my work. Unfortunately I had forgotten to snap the throttle cable back into it's holder and the throttle jammed open. I mashed the brakes, slowed down, then shut off the car. No big deal.

Obviously in our world of ignorant owners this is a big problem. I would still consider a new Toyota, but this is a big black eye.

[dd74]

Well, the fact is, by virtue of us communicating on this board, do we seem to have an edge in driving and understanding how to recover out-of-control automobiles. I would expect the same of a rider on a motorcycle forum or a person on a horse forum.

But the world at large would undoubtedly be panicked if a stuck throttle were to come into their reality while driving. So Toy is in some serious trouble with this one. Too bad. I hope this doesn't affect the company's factory employees, particularly those here in the States.

I wonder why Toyota hasn't come out with an official PR that not only states the problem, but to do if it occurs.

[LSA]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Yeah, forget all this electronic bullspit.

I WANT CABLES. Mechanically linked cables.

That is all.

I couldn't agree with this more, I WANT to feel the ignition as I turn the key, push button start is a huge turn off I WANT to feel it shift into gear. Working in an It dept I see computer failure constantly and am glad I have an 87.