Toyota unintended acceleration and recalls, Part 2

[flatbutt]

A similar opinion of mine related to BMW bike quality. Outsourcing has definitely impacted beemer quality.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Anything I could do to check out a friends car for her? It's a '10 Corolla... We are a few hrs away from the dealer...


Just make sure it doesnt feel sticky?

Don't take chances, just take it back.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by kaisen

It's not just that others have caught up, but that Toyota has slipped, as Matt Delorenzo's article suggests.

To me Toyota has never been the premium name that people seem to think it is. I've had crap luck with several of their products.

To me, Honda is a much better marque.

[McLovin]

Maker of Toyota accelerator says number of reported incidents is small

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (CP) – 19 hours ago

ELKHART, Ind. — The supplier of gas pedals used in Toyota's eight recalled car and truck brands in Canada and the United States says it knows of only a few cases of drivers having problems with accelerators.

Supplier CTS Corp. (NYSE:CTS) said Wednesday that Toyota told it about fewer than a dozen cases in which drivers struggled with pedals. CTS said it knows of no accidents or injuries tied to the problem. The supplier also said it's not aware of any cases where the pedal became stuck after drivers pushed it down, potentially causing unwanted acceleration.

Last week, as Toyota announced a voluntary recall of 2.3 million popular models, the automaker wrote in a letter to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that pedals, which dated back to the 2002 model year, could "in the worst case" become stuck in the depressed position.

Toyota has decided to stop sales and production of eight recent car and truck models across North America while it fixes the faulty gas pedals, including Camry sedans, Tundra trucks and RAV4 crossovers.

The move affect plants and dealers in the United States and Canada.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Wayne:

You are seeking what seems to be a lost engineering art that was taught to me as "Machine Design". You might remeber this where the engineer spends time making sure the interface witht he human makes sense and allows for human control during both normal and abnormal operating conditions.

You highlight a serious issue with many "so called" designers. I am often shocked by the designs I get from some of the younger folks we hire to do design for us.

Often, they are so focused on the new features they neglect to consider the failure modes and how "non-savvy" people (for lack of a better term) will be able to use the thing safely.

The keyless issue you raise is a perfect example. On many levels it seems to be a solution searching for a problem. When implemented, creates a whole new set of problems.

For any machinery, in industrial settings I am expected to install a EMO (Emergency Machine Off) switch that when pressed will IMMEDIATELY kill the operation of the machine. These switches are typically hard wired to bypass the controls an cause a stoppage immediately. Often is is simply pulling the plug or cutting hte air supply. The controls do not mediate the stopping action. It does not require me to press it for more than a moment for me to accomplish this goal. The switch is typically a muchroom style so the operator knows he has sucessfully operated the switch when things are going horribly wrong and all he wants to do is MAKE IT STOP NOW!

If you have a keyless car, you need a switch like this to address any number of emergency situations. It could be programmed to put the tranny in neutral, kill the engine or do any number of things to cause the vehicle to stop putting energy to the wheels and allow it to stop. Most important, it does with without using the main control system but acts directly to stop the power inputs.

Yours and wayne's posts are both excellent reading, and i agree with you both 100%

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

I read somewhere that witnesses to the CHP officer crash said that the rear of the car was on fire at the brakes when the car went speeding by. Makes a bit of sense, the car crashed shortly thereafter, went into the river and then exploded into a mess of flames.

Wow, the Toyota exploded too huh?

Gotta love that Toyota "quality."

I think it's high time people stopped running their mouth about how they could have done better than the trooper in his shoes. Obviously, his car wanted to kill him, and would not take no for an answer. His brakes were obviously on fire from over-heating....so hard was he pushing that pedal. Since the retarded start button wouldn't kill the engine, and his brakes UTTERLY FAILED to stop the vehicle, the only other possible option was smacking the car into nuetral. I wonder if it has some sort of circuitry to prevent the car being put into neutral at WOT. I bet it does.

I bet that cop didn't have one single option as his car decided to kill them all but to hold on and pray.

Too bad for him he didn't buy a Ford, he'd still be alive.

BTW, it appears the accelerator maker is Chinese, not American. They have several factories in China. If these are Chinese made it only reinforces my previous feelings about Chinese products- especially electronics, and specifically switches- being unreliable junk.

[yellowline]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Probably America, just like the rusting frames.

What about the Japanese engineer who programmed the shift logic?

The 911 audio from the now-deceased policeman details that he tried shifting into neutral. Apparently these cars DO NOT shift into neutral when the engine is very far off idle. You can move the stick, but it'll stay in Drive. It's another reason I want nothing to do with any electronically controlled transmission (PDK, DSG, regular autofail, you name it) from any mfr.

That isn't a supplier issue, it's a case of Toyota thinking they're smarter than the driver.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

To me, Honda is a much better marque.

agree 100%.

except for trucks. LOVE my Tundra and LOOOOOVED my taco.

[m21sniper]

I would never buy a non-American truck. American trucks kick butt, there's just no reason to buy foreign.

That's the protectionist in me, but seriously, F-150's are great trucks. So are Dodge Rams, and so have been many past Chebys and GMC's.

Of course, to each his own.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by yellowline

What about the Japanese engineer who programmed the shift logic?

The 911 audio from the now-deceased policeman details that he tried shifting into neutral. Apparently these cars DO NOT shift into neutral when the engine is very far off idle. You can move the stick, but it'll stay in Drive. It's another reason I want nothing to do with any electronically controlled transmission (PDK, DSG, regular autofail, you name it) from any mfr.

That isn't a supplier issue, it's a case of Toyota thinking they're smarter than the driver.

Exactly. This car killed him, he had no recourse but to die. (I bet the no neutral from WOT was to prevent people from trying to intentionally blow up their engines for warranty purposes)

And oh, the accelerator is made in China, not the USA.

Toyota quality baby...

SO PEOPLE DON'T SCREW AROUND- TAKE YOUR TOYOTA BACK IMMEDIATELY!

It would be a real shame if one of you nice Pelicans got killed and then burned to a crisp by your wonderful Toyota motor vehicle.

[JavaBrewer]

Wow. I can't help but think back to a similar incident involving Airbus...

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

And oh, the accelerator is made in China, not the USA.

Why do you keep saying that?

"The faulty part was manufactured by Indiana-based supplier CTS Corp. (NYSE:CTS) at a plant in Mississauga, just west of Toronto."

[McLovin]

Maker of Toyota accelerator says number of reported incidents is small - Â Autos - MSN CA

[Aurel]

Wow, this whole story makes me love my cable actuated and manual gear box 1978 911 with zero electronics sooo much .

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Why do you keep saying that?

"The faulty part was manufactured by Indiana-based supplier CTS Corp. (NYSE:CTS) at a plant in Mississauga, just west of Toronto."

Sorry, looked up the company and all their factories appeared to be in China. My bad.

Damn Americans, can't make nothin' right!

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Aurel

Wow, this whole story makes me love my cable actuated and manual gear box 1978 911 with zero electronics sooo much .

Sure. Anyone can say that about their older cars. But as I once recall when I had a CIS issue, a mechanic telling me most of the CIS parts are no longer made, so fixing it will be an increasing challenge.

All I'm saying is at one point or the other for an infinite # of reasons, we'll have to succumb to modern design and dubious engineering.

[Aurel]

Originally Posted by dd74

Sure. Anyone can say that about their older cars. But as I once recall when I had a CIS issue, a mechanic telling me most of the CIS parts are no longer made, so fixing it will be an increasing challenge.

All I'm saying is at one point or the other for an infinite # of reasons, we'll have to succumb to modern design and dubious engineering.

That is when I will be spending $2,000 to convert my CIS to a Bitz racing EFI setup, and my gas mileage, throttle response and HP will increase. Next big project I`d like to tackle.

[smokintr6]

Wow, this whole story makes me love my cable actuated and manual gear box 1978 911 with zero electronics sooo much .

I see where you're coming from with that... however, just to be contrary, I will comment that my previous 911 SC is one of 2 cars that I have experienced a sticking throttle at WOT. The other was a Triumph TR3. No electronics there to speak of. The only difference is obviously that I was able to survive both incidents, and by staying calm I was able to avoid damaging the equipment as well. Any time you get in a car, you are playing the odds. I would appreciate one mechanical safety kill switch however. I wouldn't be surprised to see manufacturers incorporating something to that effect in future vehicles.

[m21sniper]

The Toyota doesn't allow you to take the car out of gear and the brakes are insufficient to stop it. When it sticks WOT, unless you hold the start button in for 3 seconds steady, you're dead.

In a car with manual mechanical controls you can shut the car off or just put it into neutral.

[Turboo934]

"Tin Hair Syndrome"

[Aurel]

Look Sniper, this just hapened in your neck of the woods:

Driver Claims Her Toyota Suddenly Accelerated Causing It To Slam Into Laundromat - cbs3.com