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Targa, Panamera Turbo
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 22,366
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How did a single part made by a single supplier screw the world's biggest automaker?
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Used to be Singpilot...
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sioux Falls, SD is what the reg says on the bus.
Posts: 1,867
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One word.
Outsourcing. |
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Registered
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,824
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SOunds to me like this CTS Corp is the same CTS that makes potentiometers for guitars...
CTS Corporation - EC, Sensors & Actuators, EMS!
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'85 911. White - 53,000 miles bought 3-16-07. "Casper" '88 924S. Blue - 120k miles bought with 105k miles. '94 968 Coupe - White - 108,000 miles bought 9-28-17 '09 Cayman - Grey - bought 9-8-20 |
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Back in the saddle again
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Central TX west of Houston
Posts: 56,190
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Steve '08 Boxster RS60 Spyder #0099/1960 - never named a car before, but this is Charlotte. '88 targa ![]() |
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Registered
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Palm Beach, Florida, USA
Posts: 7,713
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Clearly third world made outsourced junk. Company is based in Indiana. Product manufactured in Canada. What kind of cheap third world countries are we running here?
The stuff went to China where Ford installs it in trucks for sale in the Asian market. Ford's recalling the whole batch. Somewhere Sniper's Chinese doppelganger is complaining about cheap POS component parts from North America.
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MRM 1994 Carrera |
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Former Options Trader !!!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bucks County PA
Posts: 6,756
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One word.... Lawyers
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Current:88 Guards Red Coupe, 89 Coupe Track Rat, 76 Caddy Eldo Convert. 2015 Aprilia Tuono Wrecked 1987 Targa Guards Red, 2003 Ducati ST4S Sold 1987 Granite Green Targa, 993's, 93 RSA, other 964 coupes, 89 911 Turbo Ruf mods, 90 e30 M3, 07 BMW R1200S STOLEN 94 Speedster |
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Registered
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IMO, Toyota did not manage the supplier correctly. It appears from the Toyota statement in Lube's OP that two different materials were used in the manufacture of the pedals.
Did the supplier test both materials? Did Toyota test pedals made with both materials? Did Toyota specify the material to be used or did they leave it up to the supplier? Did the supplier inform Toyota about the change in material or did they just start shipping without telling Toyota? Does the supplier have an ISO or similar requirement that disallows changing the material without informing the customer? Did Toyota perform an audit of the supplier's facility to confirm proper testing and safeguards are in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening? Etc, etc., etc. There's a lot we don't know, but clearly there was a breakdown between Toyota and supplier.
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1979 911 SC Silver 2002 996 race car 2005 Ford Excursion |
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Cars & Coffee Killer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State of Failure
Posts: 32,246
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So now Toyota is blaming a supplier?
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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Wood Magician
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Costa Mesa CA.
Posts: 891
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Its funny how everyone is bashing a company that has taken such extreme action such as ceasing sales and shutting down assembly lines to openly correct a problem. There is no way any of the American car companies would ever take the action Toyota has. There is a reason the great majority of the American car companies are absolute failures at this point, lack of leadership, vision, and build quality. That said they have vast potential and a labor force that can easily build quality cars, just come up with one that doesn't suck and mix in proper quality control and leadership. Oh by the way its too bad Toyota has been forced to build cars and parts in the US in order to be competitive (thanks government) because they seem to be the scourge of Toyotas recent problems- Tacoma frames were (outsourced) to Dana corp. Made in the USA.
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Bill is Dead.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Alaska.
Posts: 9,633
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This is just Toyota's excuse to shut down production for a while and screw the hard-working, honest Union employees who make the auto industries in America the envy of the world.
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-.-. .- ... .... ..-. .-.. -.-- . .-. The souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and no torment will ever touch them. |
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Double Trouble
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North of Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,705
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Former Options Trader !!!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bucks County PA
Posts: 6,756
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What good does it do them to screw the Union guys? Also what about all the non union people like sales people, lot guys, sales managers, franchise owners,. Since according to you they are out to screw the union do they want to do that at the expense of so many others?
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Current:88 Guards Red Coupe, 89 Coupe Track Rat, 76 Caddy Eldo Convert. 2015 Aprilia Tuono Wrecked 1987 Targa Guards Red, 2003 Ducati ST4S Sold 1987 Granite Green Targa, 993's, 93 RSA, other 964 coupes, 89 911 Turbo Ruf mods, 90 e30 M3, 07 BMW R1200S STOLEN 94 Speedster |
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sudo apt-get purge 930
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brandon, FL
Posts: 4,838
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Mark 1979 930 Euro ***GONE AND DON'T MISS IT AT ALL*** "Worrying about depreciation on your car and keeping mileage down is like not ****ing your girlfriend so her next boyfriend finds her more appealing" --clutch-monkey |
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Registered
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: So. Calif.
Posts: 19,910
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![]() As serious as this "defect" might be, if the same thing happened on a door hinge, it would be a simple recall and fix. No biggie. Anyone familiar with the plastic bushings in a Porsche pedal assembly and how they deteriorate when the master cylinder leaks BF? Different symptom, but the consequences could have been different as well. The Toyota (and all manufacturers') throttle-by-wire pedal assembly contains a potentiometer that provides feedback to the ECU as to throttle pedal position. The ECU then signals a servo motor in the throttle motor assembly to open and close the intake throttle valve according to driver input and other operating condition parameters (cold start, AC idle, etc.). Is it the pedal assembly, the throttle motor assembly or ???? It could just be a matter of millimeters. The pedal assembly might have an undersized pivot bushing (if at all) that prematurely wears and binds normal movement, or perhaps heat, bent linkage, crack or moisture or ? in the housing produces the same effect. Or, Toyota could be fishing for more time to research/repair a more complex fix - a random error code in the ECU ROM (read only memory) programmed at the factory. That's been previously speculated. One theory: If the CTS units were the real culprit, they could have ramped up prior to this and replaced them with the functionally equivalent Denso-made version and avoided all the fanfare and neg. press. OTOH, customers expect a new vehicle to work as designed despite the fact vehicle electronics are as complex as they are. The typical modern vehicle can have upwards of 20 ECUs and a multitude of sensors and actuators buried within the vehicle chassis. What happens 15 years down the line is usually not the worry of the manufacturer. I wonder who's to blame when an accident avoidance sensor (Lexus, MB and others) fails to prevent a collision? No wonder the price to drive is going up. Sherwood Last edited by 911pcars; 01-29-2010 at 12:22 PM.. |
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Bill is Dead.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Alaska.
Posts: 9,633
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This sort of thing would have never happened if Toyota had used the hard-working, honest Union employees who make the auto industries in America the envy of the world.
Fixed.
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-.-. .- ... .... ..-. .-.. -.-- . .-. The souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and no torment will ever touch them. |
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Did you get the memo?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 32,561
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Registered
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 12,665
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True story: A former employer of mine used a wax to polish their product. The wax was from a quality supplier and while not specifically made for our use, the formulation worked better than just about everything else on the market. In their supply contract, they were required to notify us of any changes to the product (so we could verify the product was still ok). At one point, we suddenly were unable to meet our product specifications. Once the problem was apparent, an initial review of the products and processes used in the production showed no apparent changes before and after the date of the problems. An investigation (taking 3 months) led us to finally figuring out it was the wax. When we challeneged the wax maker, the inital response was nothing changed. When we showed hm the data, he finally admitted they made a change at precisely the lot number used where the problem began. His defense, "We were improving the product and did not think such a minor change would matter." This line of reasoning cost us millions in lost sales and production and forensic investigation. Sound familiar?
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Harry 1970 VW Sunroof Bus - "The Magic Bus" 1971 Jaguar XKE 2+2 V12 Coupe - {insert name here} 1973.5 911T Targa - "Smokey" 2020 MB E350 4Matic |
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Registered
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: So. Calif.
Posts: 19,910
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Waving the flag is fine, but let's not do it blindly. Sherwood |
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Targa, Panamera Turbo
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 22,366
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Quote:
The problem was that the procurement specification was not written tight enough...
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Michael D. Holloway https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Holloway https://5thorderindustry.com/ https://www.amazon.com/s?k=michael+d+holloway&crid=3AWD8RUVY3E2F&sprefix= michael+d+holloway%2Caps%2C136&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 |
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Registered
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Higgs Field
Posts: 22,639
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If a manufacturer has the technical knowledge to write the procurement spec tight enough, it's only because they have retained that prowess by staying in that area of manufacturing. Kind of a "catch 22" - if they are expert enough to write the spec, they are expert enough to build the part. If they have lost the expertise to build the part, they have also lost the expertise to write the spec.
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Jeff '72 911T 3.0 MFI '93 Ducati 900 Super Sport "God invented whiskey so the Irish wouldn't rule the world" |
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