Is there a worthwile espresso machine for under $250?

[gtc]

Those gaggias actuaaly look good for the price. I had a small home machine for a few years before my current semi commercial ECM (very similar to Tabs'). I found that the home machines can still make good coffee if you are very methodical about keeping you temperature and pressure high. The weaker pumps and small boilers are what really hinder their performance, IMO. FWIW, I can see the appeal of a super-auto, but I would never buy one.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by gtc

FWIW, I can see the appeal of a super-auto, but I would never buy one.

The real appeal, besides ease of use, is that I can teach my wife to make a decent espresso.

I drink something like 6 cups of coffee a day.

[tabs]

When I bought my Salvatore I called em up and asked him...Should I buy your semi auto machine that allows progaming of the amount of water or you basic push the button machine..He said the "Basic Machine, as there is less to go wrong."

End of story...more functions, more to go wrong...keep it simple stupid...

[nostatic]

I'm a heathen. I microwave my milk (lo fat) with Peets dark chocolate syrup, slap some of my coffee (buy a pound at a time, ground fresh at Peets) in the cheap espresso machine and make it happen. Thankfully I'm not really a man of wealth and taste so this setup works fine for me...

[greglepore]

Hey Tabula- you hit it on the head, it IS worth the money, but there's no way that most folks will understand that out of the box.

It is entirely the law of diminishing returns- the difference is with coffee its a one time investment of 500 to a grand, as opposed to wine or cars, where its that to the third power.

As to the question posed, yes you can get 80% of the experience for the pricepoint presented, but you'll have to work at it, and there are other tradeoffs....

[holtjv]

Timely.

Can you guys give me the 2 liner primer on super-auto versus semi-auto versus basic?

After my trip to Oz and NZ (big coffee culture there) I'm wanting a decent long black.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I'm a heathen. I microwave my milk (lo fat) with Peets dark chocolate syrup, slap some of my coffee (buy a pound at a time, ground fresh at Peets) in the cheap espresso machine and make it happen. Thankfully I'm not really a man of wealth and taste so this setup works fine for me...

What makes the money worth being spent is that I USE IT EVERYDAY....if I used it say every 3 days...then I would have to say nope..better the cheaper one...

Now I do contradict myself with my BBq's..cause I don't use the expensive one often enough...but with them I have bin through the learning curve of using cheaper to more expensive...and it is consistency of product that is what prompted me to the expensive one..amd that is what makes it worthwhile.

[tabs]

Super Auto...grinds the beans, measures them and pours the specified amount of water through them and will froth the milk if so desired...one step, fool proof, push the button...Espresso

Semi Auto..you grind, and measure and the machine pours the specified amount of water through thte Beans.

Basic..you grind, measure, and determine the amount of water you push through the beans...by pushing the button. You also froth the milk...

I have the basic machine...the diff between a hX machine is that with them you can both froth and brew the Espresso at the same time...I would say it takes about 30 seconds to 45 seconds for this process to happen...It takes longer to grind the beans, tamp them down. place on the machine and put the cup under the portafilter then it does to brew and froth..

[holtjv]

Originally Posted by tabs

Super Auto...grinds the beans, measures them and pours the specified amount of water through them and will froth the milk if so desired...one step, fool proof, push the button...Espresso

Semi Auto..you grind, and measure and the machine pours the specified amount of water through thte Beans.

Basic..you grind, measure, and determine the amount of water you push through the beans...by pushing the button. You also froth the milk...

I have the basic machine...the diff between a hX machine is that with them you can both froth and brew the Espresso at the same time...I would say it takes about 30 seconds to 45 seconds for this process to happen...It takes longer to grind the beans, tamp them down. place on the machine and put the cup under the portafilter then it does to brew and froth..

Thanks. Didn't realize the super did all that.

I'll have to figure this out; on the one hand, I like the ritual/process/science of doing everything myself--still make loose tea in a metal china pot--I find it relaxing.

On the other hand, when mama wants her coffee...Maybe semi would be the right balance.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by holtjv

Timely.

Can you guys give me the 2 liner primer on super-auto versus semi-auto versus basic?

After my trip to Oz and NZ (big coffee culture there) I'm wanting a decent long black.

A super-auto has a bean hopper, a grinder and a water tank. It grinds the coffee, sends it to the internal portafilter, tamps it, runs high pressure heated water though the grounds. The machine then ejects the coffee grounds into an internal basket. So you press a button or two, maybe twiddle a dial, and you have espresso. The higher end machines allow you to adjust the grind, the temp and the pressure.

A semi-auto, you grind the coffee in a separate machine and put it in a portafilter. You tamp (compress) the coffee manually. You insert the portafilter into the espresso machine and typically press a button or switch to start to flow of water. Once done, you remove the portafilter and clean the grounds out. You get to deal with a lot of variables, the tamping, grind, how much coffee, and maybe in the higher end machines you can adjust the temp and pressure.

You want a pump espresso machine. Do not get one that makes espresso by making pressure by boiling water. The temp is too high,.

[holtjv]

Originally Posted by red-beard

You want a pump espresso machine. Do not get one that makes espresso by making pressure by boiling water. The temp is too high,.

Good summary, thanks James.

But I got lost at this point--sorry.

[red-beard]

Most espresso machines create pressure with a pump. Most of the under $100 ones produce pressure by boiling water. Water under pressure = much too hot water. With the pump system, you regulate the temp and the pressure separately.

[JavaBrewer]

Just sit and listen to a full-auto machine going through it's paces. There are hundreds of failure points and as soon as one goes...no java at all. My only real world experience with such a beast was through very close friends who got one as a wedding gift from their head chef (think $$$) friend. It was major expensive, like $1.5K, and lasted exactly 8 months before it's first major repair. 5 months later it suffered another major failure and, out of warranty, it now sits in their garage. They are back to brewing coffee with a drip machine...the horror.

Get the semi-auto, you grind beans, pack, tamp, and push the on-off button. They are simple and reliable and make excellent coffee.

[jyl]

I was in a restaurant supply store, looking through the used stuff. The big espresso makers you see in coffee shops are around $1K used. I don't have the counterspace, but they seem way cool.

I use a stove top espresso maker (Bialetti). It does boil the water, so I guess not ideal, but it works fine for me, takes up no room, and cost - I dunno, $30?

For you discerning campers, check this out
Amazon.com: Handpresso Hand Held Espresso Machine: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Well, anyway, search for Handpresso. How come an amazon.com URL is blocked here?

[Moses]

Where's Jeremy? Gogar has an espresso machine that was cobbled together with parts from the space shuttle. Caffeinated titanium madness.

[red-beard]

I want one of the mini-hand pump units for the MS150.

Javabrewer, you make good point. Simplicity is good. I like my super-auto, and I know I'll jinx myself, but it has been running fine for 3 years. I bought my parents the same model, and we ran the same model at work. The one at work ran fine for 1.5 years until I left. Mine and my parents have been running for 3 years. Jura-Capresso E-8.

[71T Targa]

Can someone do a side by side compare between the Gaggia New Baby and the Saeco Aroma SS?

[red-beard]

Goto the Whole Latte love website. Select Espresso Machines. Sort by price. Both machines are on page 2. Click the little boxes and then go to the bottom of the page and select compare. It will produce a good run down.

They both have positive attributes. The Portafilter on the baby is better, and it has higher wattage heaters. The Seeco uses a lot of stainless. But it also says it has a plastic boiler.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by tabs

When I bought my Salvatore I called em up and asked him...Should I buy your semi auto machine that allows progaming of the amount of water or you basic push the button machine..He said the "Basic Machine, as there is less to go wrong."

End of story...more functions, more to go wrong...keep it simple stupid...

I knew I said this earlier in the Thread...


and Red thats more than a coupla sentences of an explaination...

That Salvatore of mine is now $1775 for the Basic Model...he is making a lower cost model at 1K. What your buying is American Hand Built with all commericial unit parts...you get what you pay for...

[tabs]

Originally Posted by red-beard

goto the whole latte love website. Select espresso machines. Sort by price. Both machines are on page 2. Click the little boxes and then go to the bottom of the page and select compare. It will produce a good run down.

They both have positive attributes. The portafilter on the baby is better, and it has higher wattage heaters. The seeco uses a lot of stainless. But it also says it has a plastic boiler.

also read the customers reviews on the various machines...that will be very enlightening...