Arizona is about to be the 3rd state to allow CCW with no permit

[creaturecat]

Did you happen to notice the "with all due respect" Joe?
You have lost mine, by virtue of being a grumpy, uneducated goof.
BTW. When did I move to "Kalifornia"?
Get a life! Oh I forgot!
You're too fk'n OLD.

[m21sniper]

You still have not given any reasonable explanation as to why you took the initial view that you took CC.

Vermont has never had a requirement for a permit to carry. Vermont might be the safest place in America.

Pennsylvania has no requirement for any firearms training to get a shall issue permit. I have never once heard of that being a problem or issue.

So what is it that has you so horrified?

[Joeaksa]

A felon can submit an application to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, (ATF) under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c) requesting restoration of your gun rights. The application is supposedly granted if “it is established . . . that the circumstances . . . and the applicant’s record and reputation, are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest.”

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

Did you happen to notice the "with all due respect" Joe?
You have lost mine, by virtue of being a grumpy, uneducated goof.
BTW. When did I move to "Kalifornia"?
Get a life! Oh I forgot!
You're too fk'n OLD.

Now you have me crying. Boo Hoo..... CC does not like me anymore.

Like I give a chit what you think or feel. You just went on ignore as I am tired of hearing your whining!

[9dreizig]

Quote:
Originally Posted by porsche4life
I'm with OJU on this... Not a good deal..

No surprise there.

Did you formulate that opinion during gym class, or during recess?

Too ******* Funny , Bill!!

[porsche4life]

I should have never taken you off ignore bill...


Sorry... I formulated that opinion between my Chem 2! class and work in the Pharmacy. I know you seem to think it would be ok for every idiot on the street to have a gun.... I don't like the thought of having to worry that everyone in the store I am working *might* be carrying with NO training... Scares the hell out of me if something were to escalate... Just b/c you can stick an LCP in your pocket doesn't mean you can acquire a target when the SHTF.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

I don't like the thought of having to worry that everyone in the store I am working *might* be carrying with NO training.

You should worry about that regardless of the law. I can assure you that people have carried illegally in your store and probably a few without any kind of training. You should worry about dying in a traffic accident. Your chances of that are exponentially higher than ever hearing a gun fired in anger or even drawn on someone.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

I don't like the thought of having to worry that everyone in the store I am working *might* be carrying with NO training... Scares the hell out of me if something were to escalate...

Excuse me... you think that the criminals have ANY training either? They usually have NO training and could care less if you live or die.

Now which one makes you feel safer, to have one or two criminals with no training but carrying guns and ready to shoot anyone for the slightest reason, and then possibly a group of law abiding citizens, many of which ARE trained and armed ready to save someone's life?

If "Luby's Cafeteria" had happened these days and one or two people eating there would have been armed, the person who killed so many people inside would have been taken down within a few seconds, saving multiple lives. Doubt that these people who were killed would have worried about their law abiding citizens around them being trained or not.

How much training do YOU have?

Joe A

[porsche4life]

Joe, I have no training...which is why I don't carry....

I don't have a problem in the world with someone who took the time to show that they can handle a weapon and got the certification carrying a weapon...

Let me ask you this... Are you comfortable with anyone who can crawl behind a steering wheel driving? Its deadly too and you have to prove your worthiness there...

[Joeaksa]

Sidney,

I have no choice on the driving bit. If it were in my hands, we would actually train drivers and make them pass a real driving test. Like they do in Germany, it takes 6 months minimum and around $2000 to get a drivers license.

Thats the thing, the so called certification is illegal. The 2nd admendment allows us to have arms, and cities, states and so on try to force us into getting "certified" to have something. Now states are throwing that to the wind and embracing the 2nd admendment and allowing people to do as it was intended.

You are far more likely to get harmed in a car accident than a shooting. Then when you go to work if someone tries to rob you, simply give them the drugs as its not worth your life. Then you get to go back in the car and face danger again.

Joe A

[ODDJOB UNO]

ya know everyone knows how to shoot a gun from birth. now when ya ask azgfd at ben avery range what its like the 2 weeks following xmas, they will tend to argue that point, because of the insanity they experience.


its kind of like driving a car. everyone knows how from birth.


or racing a car, everyone here has known how to race a 911 from birth.


my only argument.................training with firearms. too many people have their head up their ass driving while on cell phone, too many people have their head up their ass when it comes to a weapon. and we read about this everydamn day.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

my only argument.................training with firearms. too many people have their head up their ass driving while on cell phone,

Yeah, the anti always say CCW'ers need to be trained, but ignore the drivers with cell phones. Has anyone heard of a drivers ed class that trains folks how to chat or text while driving?

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Yeah, the anti always say CCW'ers need to be trained, but ignore the drivers with cell phones. Has anyone heard of a drivers ed class that trains folks how to chat or text while driving?

Rick,

Even worse, you take your driving test ONE time when you are 16 or so, then are never tested again. Its a farce yet people are so used to it that they forget that this is how many people are killed.

Joe A

[ZLP]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

ya know everyone knows how to shoot a gun from birth. now when ya ask azgfd at ben avery range what its like the 2 weeks following xmas, they will tend to argue that point, because of the insanity they experience.

How many people were injured with firearms during that time?

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

I should have never taken you off ignore bill...

Sorry man, i couldn't help myself.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Excuse me... you think that the criminals have ANY training either? They usually have NO training and could care less if you live or die.

Now which one makes you feel safer, to have one or two criminals with no training but carrying guns and ready to shoot anyone for the slightest reason, and then possibly a group of law abiding citizens, many of which ARE trained and armed ready to save someone's life?

If "Luby's Cafeteria" had happened these days and one or two people eating there would have been armed, the person who killed so many people inside would have been taken down within a few seconds, saving multiple lives. Doubt that these people who were killed would have worried about their law abiding citizens around them being trained or not.

How much training do YOU have?

Joe A

As an example of the usefulness of an armed citizen in a restaurant, i always sit facing the door. I always watch when someone suspicious comes in. My LCP (which is going to be my 99% of the time carry piece now) is loaded with the best ammo around and it'll soon be zeroed in at 7 yards with a precision laser sight. I will practice with it both dry firing and live firing until i can group every shot at that range to the pistols mechanical limit.

So that someday, IF i am ever present when there's one of these mass shootings, i can end it with one or two well aimed shots.

The ability to stop a mass shooting is honestly my #2 reason for carrying a pistol concealed. These damn occurrences are so common now, it's something that i've really put a lot of "what if" thought into.

As far as how much training is required to safely carry a firearm, i would think that any free (to members) NRA hunter safety course is plenty sufficient, as is the proper firearms choice. Then again, here in Pa absolutely zero training is required to carry a firearm (it might vary by county), and we have not had any high profile incidents that i am aware of that would cause me to doubt the wisdom of our laws.

Some pistols are just a bad choice to be carrying in public without a serious retention holster. Ask our boy Plaxico Burress. (who, if he'd shot himself in Pa instead of the Democratic Peoples Republik of NY, would be a free man today).

Now if you know you have anger issues, then obviously you should heed your own judgment and not carry. If you know you don't have the heart to shoot someone, you shouldn't carry. But these are personal decisions, they're not the sort of thing you require training to know for yourself.

I have no question that i would shoot to save myself or someone else. I think my choice in firearm is sound and well thought out. I think that i am a net positive when it comes to making my community safer.

PS: Most cops have very little firearms training and practice far too infrequently themselves.

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Joe, I have no training...which is why I don't carry....

I don't have a problem in the world with someone who took the time to show that they can handle a weapon and got the certification carrying a weapon...

Because you know, training makes all the difference

Police academy instructor shoots self during gun demonstration

[m21sniper]

Training often breeds contempt. Just as familiarity does.

"I'm the only one in this room qualified to handle this glock."
~DEA Agent

BOOM!!!

"OUCH!"
~Limping DEA agent.

“He seems to be in good spirits, but he’s just a little embarrassed,” Laymon said. “People ask how these things happen, but this goes to show you that if you get complacent or get in a hurry accidents can happen.”

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Training often breeds contempt. Just as familiarity does.

"I'm the only one in this room qualified to handle this glock."
~DEA Agent

BOOM!!!

"OUCH!"
~Limping DEA agent.

“He seems to be in good spirits, but he’s just a little embarrassed,” Laymon said. “People ask how these things happen, but this goes to show you that if you get complacent or get in a hurry accidents can happen.”

You mean this guy?

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by ZLP

How many people were injured with firearms during that time?

my point being the mass quanities of FLATLANDER MORON IDIOTS going to the range to try out for the 1st time some outlandish RAMBO WEAPON and they havent a clue which end to point. evidenced by the holes in the freeking ceiling there.


and i witnessed a korean mega family must have been 20 of them on freeking holiday gathered around daddy korean and teenage korean at the bench with an ak-47 variant. after about 5 rds thru the ceiling and the barrel being pointed at everyjuan...............the range master shut the range down and in a VERY FORCEFUL MANNER WITH HIS HAND ON HIS GUN TOLD THEM TO GET THE HELL OUT AND NEVER COME BACK!

and i got to witness that 1st hand. oh boy that will wake ya up damn fast.


note to self: never go to range the 1st 2 weeks after xmas mega MORON ALERT IN EFFECT!