Why is air fare cheaper than the bus?

[Rot 911]

POP has hit the nail right on the head. Commercial airlines are now nothing more than a bus with wings.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Have any of you guys flown commercially lately? It sucks. The gap between the experience of riding the bus and the experience of flying has narrowed considerably, probably due in large part to the ridiculously low fares.

If this sounds snobbish, so be it - the only way I can even remotely stand commercial flying now is with a set of noise canceling headphones and some sort of mindless entertainment to screen out all the stupidity around me for however many hours. One of the reasons to like JetBlue and their on-board TV service. Yes, most of what's on TV is stupid too, but it's typically less obnoxious and annoying than the stupidity of the people around you in the plane, and you can usually find SOMETHING on that's marginally less mindless than the norm, enough to tolerate.

I fly fairly regularly and have noticed a perceptible trend in the last 10-or-so years. People on aircraft have gotten far more rude, pushy, belligerent, obnoxious and just plain stupid. This is in addition to them being fatter and feeling the need to schlep ever-increasing amounts of crap along with them (with the mentality of entitlement to ever-increasing amounts of overhead bin space, floor space, seat space and everything else - and if it encroaches on one's fellow passengers, too bad - the most boisterous person gets to inconvenience everyone else!)

I truly hate the experience of flying commercially now and it isn't just the "being-treated-like-cattle" attitude from the carriers, the idiotic TSA security BS, the rip-off parking prices, concession prices and everything-else prices at airports or even the thought of being "ground held" for six hours. It's being crammed in such close quarters with other people who by-in-large are increasingly more impossible to deal with and who really deserve to be "going Greyhound".

I swear the next time I get stuck next to some won't-shut-up, perptuallly fidgity and uncomfortable, "must-tell-you-her-life-story" broad who doesn't understand that my sunglasses, headphones and staring out the window are a clue that I don't want to be bothered every 30 seconds, some jackoff sideways-hat-and-baggy-pants wearing, gangsta-glorifying, ebonics-speaking douchebag with an faux-attitude, some self-important fat guy who expects everyone else to bow down and respect him because he's a successful vibrator salesman or whatever or some strung-out, stressed-out 20-something mom with four screaming brats from three different daddys in tow, I'm going to end up finding myself on a do-not-fly list. And you know what, I'd probably be okay with that - if there were any sort of viable alternative.

I will welcome increases of 50%-100% in fares to keep some of the 'low-rent-district", "should-be-riding-the-bus" crowd the hell off the airplanes.

Yeah, maybe I'm getting old and crotchety but I just hate dealing with stupid, obnoxious and rude people, and they seem to be representing an increasing percentage of the flying public - at an even greater rate than society-at-large. Given the choice of associating with such individuals, give me the idiot box, my sunglasses, noise-cancelling headphones and a window seat and let me distract myself from the reality of Stupid that surrounds me for the next several hours. That's the only way I can deal with it anymore.

Yes, you are getting old and crotchety. If you don't like coach pony up some extra bread for business or 1st class.

Coach has always been "ghetto" IMO.

[jtfreels]

Come on down unclebilly, Beal Street is just a short walk from the Greyhound station. I'll meet you down there.

Originally Posted by unclebilly

You have to pay an entertainment tax for riding the bus. They charge exra for all of the 'people watching' you get to partake in...

It has been a dream of mine to take the greyhound to Memphis. I'd buy an old guitar, sit in the back seat and learn how to play 'Mammas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys' on the way there... on the way home, I'd learn to play harmonica...

I think I'd grow out my sideburns and probably a mustache for the trip. I think I'd also try to get a velvet suit and a bowtie for the ride home.

[legion]

I used to ride Peoria Charter from Normal to Joliet in college to get home. That line was mostly college students when I was on the bus (to and from breaks).

I also used to ride Illini Swallows from Normal to Champaign to visit friends at U of I. Once again, mostly college students.

A few years ago, I found a mechanic in Champaign who specialized in 944s to do some major work for me. I drove the car to Champaign, then took the bus home, then did the reverse trip a week later. On the reverse trip (which was during the day), it was NOT mostly college students. In fact, most of the people on that particular bus were fresh out of prison in Pontiac and making there way home to various locations in southern Illinois.

[legion]

And to answer the original question...

Railroads have MUCH higher maintenance costs than airlines. They have to maintain trains, cars, stations, and all the track between the stations. It's a business model that works well for freight but sucks for passenger traffic. When you can string a train over a mile long of 300+ cars of cargo, it pays for itself very well. When the longest trains of paying passengers cars you can string together have less than 10 cars, it isn't very economical, even with the generous government subsidies.

Buses have a different problem. Their problem is throughput relative to airplanes. A bus from Chicago to Nashville will take 8 hours to make the drive. An airplane flying that same route can do it in an hour. Even when you account for turn-around time, that airplane can make 4 roundtrips to Nashville in the same amount of time it takes a bus to make one. That means that if a bus ticket and a plane ticket cost the same, the airplane can generate 4 times the revenue for a given period of time. But the reality is that the plane ticket can be much cheaper because of the higher throughput.

[m21sniper]

Just for the record, like Jeff, i also hate commercial flying. In honesty, i don't disagree with most of what he said.

[unclebilly]

Another option would be to take a boat... is there a paddlewheeler service that makes this trip along the local river system?

[VINMAN]

Whens the last time anybody took regular Amtrak coach to Fl? Shyte, ya wanna talk dregs of society!!

Although Ive taken the AutoTrain a few times and that wasnt bad.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

.................

I will welcome increases of 50%-100% in fares to keep some of the 'low-rent-district", "should-be-riding-the-bus" crowd the hell off the airplanes.

....................

If you're serious, there's always first class. However, there may well be screaming babies up there too.

Never been in first class and I don't fly anyway. I was last on an airliner before 9/11, so I don't know about all the schit personally. My wife tells me. And, she's been upgraded a few times and says FC is great.

If I need to go across country, I'll grin and bear it. That's what Valium is for. No bus. However, if it can be done in 10 hours or less, I'd consider the train at whatever cost. Sleeper bunks are really pricey, so I wouldn't care to spend rail time like being in a submarine.

[Hugh R]

I get to take FC when I fly oversees. Air New Zealand and Lufthansa are way better than United. Individual TV screens which you can watch what you want when you want, and Recaro true lie flat seats. United needs to catch up.

[JavaBrewer]

PoP's rant, though funny, is describing the outside occurrence of air travel. After nearly a million air miles spread over AA, US Airways (America West), and United I can honestly say flying beats the pants off the alternative. Yes FC is substantially better than coach and as a frequent flyer I have ridden FC many times but as long as you can avoid a middle seat I have no problems with coach either. I rode Greyhound once as a kid - Los Angeles to Santa Barbara and the memory still lingers. I rode Amtrack once San Diego to Santa Barbara - never again.

[GWN7]

I have a lady friend who works for the dog. During discussions about her job I noted that they seem to base their fares on what it would cost you to drive the same route in your own vehicle. I checked several trips using the dogs posted rates and checking the mileage using mapquest and the dog is slightly cheaper than driving my truck over the same distance.

The dog has security (rent a cops with wands) ever since that nut job cut the kids head off.

[jyl]

Let's not forget that the US airline industry is a big money-loser. The industry has lost more money than it has earned, during its history and certainly during the past few decades. Many of the companies have been in and out of bankruptcy. Overall, the price of airplane tickets do not actually reflect the cost of providing the service - if it did, this industry wouldn't be such a basket case.

Therefore, trying to analyze ticket prices based on those costs is going to be tough.

I don't know the economics of inter-city buses or how they set ticket prices. My impression is that there isn't that much competition on most routes.

As for passenger rail, nationwide Amtrak is crippled by (among other things) the fact that they run on freight rail lines that they do not own/control, which means slow speeds and huge delays. In the Norheast Corridor, which Amtrak actually owns, they make money (as of 2007 they did anyway) - it subsidizes the rest of Amtrak.

I personally like to see
- About 1/3 of the US airlines to disappear.
- The rest raise ticket prices by +50% and be profitable, pay pilots and other employees decently, and allow a nicer experience for passengers (like more legroom).
- High-speed rail where it makes sense. At 120+ mph, NYC-LAX or LAX-SEA are too long to be appealing but SFO-LAX or SEA-PDX would be fine. At higher speeds, longer trips start to make sense. China is expanding high-speed rail across the country, and that is a pretty darn big area.
- Bus - ehh, I don't care. I guess bus service matters for rural areas, but I'm not planning to live in North Dakota any time soon.

[URY914]

This thread needs a bus picture and what do you know, I have one........go figure.

[Pazuzu]

You have not become a Man if you haven't spent at least 24 straight hours on a Greyhound at least once in your life.

I almost called BS on Sniper not finding cheaper bus fairs, but holy cow have they gotten expensive!! Used to be (10 year ago) that you could travel almost anywhere for $40 each way with 3 weeks notice, usually less.

[m21sniper]

Well i will admit i did not scour the ends of the internet for the cheapest possible bus fare, i just did a quickie search with about 2 weeks notice on greyhound.com

[Jagshund]

Why not drive? Are you dropping off a car?

[m21sniper]

It's a girl.

[URY914]

Enough said..........

[m21sniper]

I concur, which is why i said what i said, and no more.