Apple Gets More Than 600,000 Orders for iPhone 4

[island911]

can you hear me now . . ?

[enzo1]

sounds like a lot of phones have this problem....arrrg Apple iPhone 4*Antennas... - AntennaSys Blog - AntennaSys, Inc. - antenna design, integration and consulting.

[island911]

Originally Posted by enzo1

sounds like a lot of phones have this problem....arrrg Apple iPhone 4*Antennas... - AntennaSys Blog - AntennaSys, Inc. - antenna design, integration and consulting.

A lot?

seems that the thrust of the article was that antennas are traditionally near the top of the device. And now they claim "There is no way around this, it's a design compromise that is forced by the requirements of the FCC, AT&T, Apple's marketing department and Apple's industrial designers, to name a few."

Well the "this" was a choice to put the antenna on the EDGE of the device (and they are now selling that as if the FCC said it had to be on the edge)

Sounds to me that they (once again) put styling over function. . . .but hey, you prolly don't need that function much anyway. --all those games and apps.

So what about those yellow brown screen artifacts?

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Come on Ian, don't be a hater...

My phone (BB) is a necessary appliance, not my life. Many, many people seem to treat a phone as the core of their existence - a bodily attachment that they can't put down, can't shut off - they NEED it - just like an addiction. I find it very amusing and very pitiful at the same time.

Ian

[gprsh924]

Originally Posted by island911

A lot?

seems that the thrust of the article was that antennas are traditionally near the top of the device. And now they claim "There is no way around this, it's a design compromise that is forced by the requirements of the FCC, AT&T, Apple's marketing department and Apple's industrial designers, to name a few."

Well the "this" was a choice to put the antenna on the EDGE of the device (and they are now selling that as if the FCC said it had to be on the edge)

Sounds to me that they (once again) put styling over function. . . .but hey, you prolly don't need that function much anyway. --all those games and apps.

So what about those yellow brown screen artifacts?

The thrust of the article is that if you hold the phone carefully it shouldn't affect performance too much. That is the conclusion he reaches at the end of the article. The author talked about how way back when all antennas were at the top of the phone. He specifically stated that due to the SAR rule many phones moved their antennas to the bottom of the phone. Apple wasn't the first to do so. I agree that apple probably put a bit to much into form over function, but there are issues and compromises with every phone on the market.

[imcarthur]

Steve Jobs responded to a query about the problem from one owner by saying: "Just avoid holding it in that way."

Apple issues advice to avoid iPhone flaw

Now that is a satisfying answer isn't it?

Ian

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

My phone (BB) is a necessary appliance, not my life. Many, many people seem to treat a phone as the core of their existence - a bodily attachment that they can't put down, can't shut off - they NEED it - just like an addiction. I find it very amusing and very pitiful at the same time.

Ian

I agree. I find it pretty sad actually.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

My phone (BB) is a necessary appliance, not my life. Many, many people seem to treat a phone as the core of their existence - a bodily attachment that they can't put down, can't shut off - they NEED it - just like an addiction. I find it very amusing and very pitiful at the same time.

Ian

I totally agree! I guess the wink wasn't enough, I should have made the text green.

[imcarthur]

James: No worries, I got the wink . . . so the vent was general & not directed at you.

Ian

[red-beard]

For me, it is a combination of cost, features and convinience. The biggest problem, the iPhone has always had some feature missing, that I can't live without. The list is getting shorter, but I also have an issue with the "central control" of the apps.

[imcarthur]

I use the same BB that I had when iPhone #1 was launched. It still does everything I need. I can phone, email, text & search Google if I want. I have never bought an app. I have saved money & I have the functionality that I need. Touch keyboards suck. Really, really suck. I have one on my GPS & it sucks too.

I am not a fruit hater - but I do hate the fruit addicts. And the insulting TV ads that tell me I'm an idiot.

Ian

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

I use the same BB that I had when iPhone #1 was launched. It still does everything I need. I can phone, email, text & search Google if I want. I have never bought an app. I have saved money & I have the functionality that I need. Touch keyboards suck. Really, really suck. I have one on my GPS & it sucks too.

I am not a fruit hater - but I do hate the fruit addicts. And the insulting TV ads that tell me I'm an idiot.

Ian

I'm out of the office a lot more now than I used to be. Connecting my computer to the phone for Internet access is important. I've been doing this for at least 7-8 years. T-Mobile has always been much less expensive for data. I dropped AT&T in 2004 because they charged double for the unlimited data plan. Nothing has changed.

[jyl]

I'd be interested to see any side-by-side comparisons of web page load time with iPhone 4 vs iPhone 3G.

[island911]

Originally Posted by gprsh924

The thrust of the article is that if you hold the phone carefully it shouldn't affect performance too much. . . . due to the SAR rule many phones moved their antennas to the bottom of the phone. Apple wasn't the first to do so. ....

So then, if Johnny jumped off a bridge . ...

My HTC has it at the top. As have my two previous touch screen phones.

Originally Posted by gprsh924

.... I agree that apple probably put a bit to much into form over function, but there are issues and compromises with every phone on the market.

For sure. But smart designers weigh each of the metrics/features for a better balance than that. I mean c'mon, signal strength is a bit of a mission critical feature.

hmmm. . . actually I may be wrong about that. I mean as long as that shiny Apple logo is seen (when held up to the 'users' ear) then Apple has done their job.

[island911]

I should also point to (as the article does) that having more than one antenna (w/in the device) has been done before too. ...not by Apple, but by some of the more innovative companies.

[island911]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Steve Jobs responded to a query about the problem from one owner by saying: "Just avoid holding it in that way."

Apple issues advice to avoid iPhone flaw

Now that is a satisfying answer isn't it?

Ian

As I've said before, the way people use their device is changing -- not so much held up to the ear anymore (bluetooth ear pieces and all). So, that can change how people hold the device.

However... People know intuitively how to hold a device, esp when they have to back-stop the one mechanical button on the device. And then there is the one-handed operation mode. --where is the ergonomically intuitive grip then? ...left or right handed? ...but wait, isn't the BT antenna on the opposite side of the cell antenna? . . . ooops.

From what I've seen, people expect much better from Apple. A design decision like that, one might expect on a Chinese iClone . .. but not a 4th gen Apple product.

I will also add, that from what I know from my cell antenna design years, is that this concern about head radiation is being over-played by Apple. That is, much like a loud-speaker, an antenna engineer can shape and direct the the RF energy.

. . . moving it down a few inches, and to the edge, ALL (supposedly) to take advantage of the 1/R² relation is lame. --they could do more with shaping and directing the energy. (like so many others do)

[enzo1]

The technical explanation for the variation in signal strength found when closing the iPhone's case gaps with one's fingers is, that the antennas are being "loaded". The loading from fingers, a material with a high relative permittivity of ~50 at 2 GHz, changes the input impedance and resonant frequency of the antenna resulting in loss.
If I had to take an educated guess, I suspect pressing one's fingers across the gap increases the gap capacitance and changes the feed input impedance and electrical length of the antenna. It is analogous to holding on to a piano wire with two fingers while it is being struck. Its resonant frequency will shift and its quality factor will drop, resulting in a sound that is off key and muffled.
A solution often employed in the field is to preload an antenna. Preloading is including a large permittivity in the design, so when a human puts it close to their body, there isn't a significant change. The down side of this is that it often reduces bandwidth and efficiency. So you can either have a great antenna that takes a hit when your fingers are near it or have one that is not quite as good but never changes. Isn't it like Apple to choose the former and like the masses to cry for the latter?
Note that if the antennas were designed to be inside the case as opposed to being part of it, they would likely have a loss somewhere between the best (unloaded) and worst (loaded) performance of the existing antenna. It's all an engineering tradeoff.
The best solution is to not touch the antennas at the gap (Steve is right) or to buy a phone cover that keeps your high-permittivity sausages away from the RF sensitive areas. Apple made the trade off for you and in my opinion it is a novel and good one, provided it can survive the bad PR generated by the griping gap grippers.

[island911]

all that shiny superior design goodness, and you want to cover it up with PLasTiC . . just so it will work? . . ..say it ain't Sooooo... nNOOOOooo. . . .


Yeah, trade-off's. Ever wonder why most cell-phones are designed (packaged) like they are ... as if they are intended to be around for only a year or two?

Actually, to iPhones credit, the battery design is just that - packaged knowing the phone isn't going to be around all that long. . ...and yet they design the externals so the consumer will equate the device longevity to that of say, a TAG Heuer. (tricky lil beotches)

[enzo1]

yea, maybe now I'll be able to actually order 1, cause they won't sell as many ... since i've been trying to get 1 with no luck.... my phone is a 2007 model and my wife remarked how good the battery still is, damn thing won't die.... also heard that Radio Shack will give 80$ bucks for it in trade in

[island911]

A silver lining... Well, actually, it's a Stainless steel lining. But I'm sure you could get it plated in silver. ...before the plastic cover goes on.

will it still be the thinnest?