I Would Defend Myself with Either...

[Jeff Higgins]

As a self-proclaimed "shooting curmudgeon" who is more than willing to express his opinions, I'm sure you guys have figured out by now that I'm not all that impressed with modern "bells and whistles" on firearms. I shoot mostly lead bullets I cast myself, mostly single actions, single shots, and lever guns, and mostly iron sights. I don't believe a guy can spend enough money to buy skill, unless he spends it on ammo and range fees.

So, with that said, here are a couple of examples of what the old iron can do. Mondays are my range day during the summer, where I grab a couple of guns to go shoot after work. Today they were my mil-spec Springfield 1911A1 in .45 ACP and my third generation Peacemaker in .45 Colt. The former was shooting the old Hensly and Gibbs 200 grain SWC over 6.5 grains of W-W #231 - a very traditional light bullseye load. The latter was shooting the RCBS .45-270SAA over 40 grains of very compressed Goex FFFg (yes, black powder). Bullets are cast from wheel weights and lubed with SPG.

All shooting was at 25 yards off hand. The Model P does better with smokeless loads, as the black powder really starts to foul after just one cylinder, and accuracy decreases with the heavy fouling. It will hang in there long enough for just about any real world use, though.

Anyway, the targets:





And now some close-ups of the sights. Both wear fixed sights, with the Peacemaker having no more than a notch in the frame serving as the rear sight. No three dots, no tritium, no inserts - nothing fancy. They are adjusted with a file and a drift punch (the 1911) or a file and a barrel vise and a hammer handle (Model P). No need for all that fancy, fragile crap being hocked today.





Oh well, enough of my curmudgeonly grumbling. Gotta head downstairs to clean 'em. Especially that black powder...

[m21sniper]

If it works for you, and doesn't put me or others at undue risk (cough, cough, glock,) i am all for it.

I'd rather have you in my foxhole with your high capacity lever action rifle and Colt .45 that you're highly competent and comfortable with, then with state of the art firepower you were neither comfortable nor experienced in using.

I think you need to give the "fancy high tech gadgets" a try before you poo poo them though. The average US infantryman going into battle today has all of those bells and whistles, and they are absolutely proven to be both effective and, if you spend the money for the top flight milspec stuff, very, very durable.

A single focal plane red dot is much simpler and faster to use than iron sights, and unlike iron sights, it gives full day/night/adverse weather capability. When combined with passive night vision systems, these modern shooting aids are flat out "cheating" if your opponent doesn't have comparable equipment.

[Jeff Higgins]

If I knew I were going into battle, I would certainly reconsider my dislike of such modern conveniences. But I'm not. I'm a civilian. I only need to defend my home, or myself and/or loved ones when out and about. And I hunt, which is only done lawfully during daylight hours. I want to be able to carry my arms as unobtrusively as possible. All the modern foofaraw tends to bulk them up and get in the way. None of it makes them shoot any better under the conditions I, or most civilians for that matter, shoot or may ever have to shoot.

The main point I'm trying to make, however, is that the money most guys spend on these whiz-bang accessories might be better spent on range time and ammo. For example, there were several other shooters there today that were using all manner of shinny new expensive autos (interestingly, no revolvers), some with optical sights of one kind or another, some from very famous high end makers, being fed the newest high-end expensive JHP ammo, yadda yadda yadda. A few were shooting from rests (I think because the guns and optics were too damn heavy to hold up for long). Not a single one of them could keep all of their shots inside the scoring rings, much less the black. Some could not stay on the paper and were asked to leave (we have strict rules about that). With the latest and greatest of everything, and shooting from a rest at that. With guns they could in no way carry with them, at least some of them. They seem to think they can buy hits. I bet a couple of them were heading back t their gunsmiths to demand he make their guns shoot better.

[jyl]

One of my friends was wounded by a black bear in the Sierras. I forget what the situation was. He is a experienced backpacker, probably has 1,000 days in the backcountry. Might have been a ''mutually surprised'' sort of thing. The bear came at him far faster than my friend could run, knocked him down, gave him a warning nip or was it a blow, I can't recall, and went off. He had to hike out, 10 miles, with a pretty significant and bloody wound rather close to his genitals. Then he had the whole rabies shot regimen. He doesn't carry a weapon, figures one attack in 50+ years in the high country isn't worth the worry.

[jyl]

Jeez, wrong thread. Sorry. Nice printing, Mr. H.

[stogie25]

While I enjoy shooting with my new fangled weapons. I also enjoy shooting with only the basics. I think I just enjoy shooting.

One you might enjoy. 1950's Colt Officer's .38. Heavy barrel.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The main point I'm trying to make, however, is that the money most guys spend on these whiz-bang accessories might be better spent on range time and ammo. For example, there were several other shooters there today that were using all manner of shinny new expensive autos (interestingly, no revolvers), some with optical sights of one kind or another, some from very famous high end makers, being fed the newest high-end expensive JHP ammo, yadda yadda yadda. A few were shooting from rests (I think because the guns and optics were too damn heavy to hold up for long). Not a single one of them could keep all of their shots inside the scoring rings, much less the black. Some could not stay on the paper and were asked to leave (we have strict rules about that). With the latest and greatest of everything, and shooting from a rest at that. With guns they could in no way carry with them, at least some of them. They seem to think they can buy hits. I bet a couple of them were heading back t their gunsmiths to demand he make their guns shoot better.

I know the type. We have them here too.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

The money most guys spend on these whiz-bang accessories might be better spent on range time and ammo.

Forsooth!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by stogie25

While I enjoy shooting with my new fangled weapons. I also enjoy shooting with only the basics. I think I just enjoy shooting.

One you might enjoy. 1950's Colt Officer's .38. Heavy barrel.

Sweet!

I'm more of a single action kind of guy, but I could definitely see one of those in the collection.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

If I knew I were going into battle, I would certainly reconsider my dislike of such modern conveniences. But I'm not. I'm a civilian. I only need to defend my home, or myself and/or loved ones when out and about. And I hunt, which is only done lawfully during daylight hours. I want to be able to carry my arms as unobtrusively as possible. All the modern foofaraw tends to bulk them up and get in the way. None of it makes them shoot any better under the conditions I, or most civilians for that matter, shoot or may ever have to shoot.

The main point I'm trying to make, however, is that the money most guys spend on these whiz-bang accessories might be better spent on range time and ammo. For example, there were several other shooters there today that were using all manner of shinny new expensive autos (interestingly, no revolvers), some with optical sights of one kind or another, some from very famous high end makers, being fed the newest high-end expensive JHP ammo, yadda yadda yadda. A few were shooting from rests (I think because the guns and optics were too damn heavy to hold up for long). Not a single one of them could keep all of their shots inside the scoring rings, much less the black. Some could not stay on the paper and were asked to leave (we have strict rules about that). With the latest and greatest of everything, and shooting from a rest at that. With guns they could in no way carry with them, at least some of them. They seem to think they can buy hits. I bet a couple of them were heading back t their gunsmiths to demand he make their guns shoot better.

That is just how I feel. I see the threads on zombie attacks and even if they are written tounge in cheek they are not my worry. I have a 38 special for home protection. I feel quite sure that I will never be in a gun battle like in the movies. I bet just one shot and whatever intruder will be dead, wounded or running like hell.

[HHI944]

So, the real question is: Do you ever carry the Peacemaker?
Just the thought of drawing down on some punk with a 150 year old design would add some levity to the situation...

[Rusty Heap]

Good work Jeff. Glad you're on our side. PM me as to what range you go to on Mondays (my back yard is always open too) bring the baby blue car out well armed and lets do some skeet or other plinking.



You could easily substitute your old Iron gun and thread topic, for golf clubs...........no I don't golf, and I'll openly laugh at those people who do, and call it a "sport" where the $900 putter or driving club made out of rare un-obtainium metal will sink more balls in the cup.

Tiger Woods could out golf anyone with a bare 2x2" spindle of wood.

guess that's talent, practice and skill over wizz bang technology.

[Jeff Higgins]

I actually carry the Peacemaker most of the time, in preference to anything else. Not with the black powder loads, but rather the same bullet over 16.5 grains of Alliant #2400 for about 950 fps. It's a potent load - I've even killed a couple deer and some pronghorn with it.

That may sound kind of odd, but it is what I'm comfortable with and intimately familiar with. It's what I grew up with. I've always had a single action of one kind or another on my hip when bumming around the mountains, backpacking, fishing, hunting, or just fooling around. A 4 5/8" stainless Blackhawk (in .45 Colt, of course) has been my nearly constant companion when I don't have to conceal it. The Model P is smaller, smoother, and easier to conceal, so it comes along when I'm closer to home.

I actually kind of "semi-retired" the Colt last year and bought one of Ruger's New Vaqueros. They downsized it back down to the original Blackhawk size and, with its fixed sights, is virtually the same size as the Colt. Plus, it holds one more, and I can buy three of them before I reach the replacement cost of the Colt.

[ODDJOB UNO]

do you realize "LEAD" is harmful to the environment?



do you realize that a tree died in the mfg. of that target?



do you realize that shooting "SQUIRRELS/RODENTIN" is much mo betterer for the environment?


good shooting.

[vash]

"ahhhh...centermass."

nice hole punching higgens! you should just spray paint, "do not disturb" on one of those and post it up on a front yard tree.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by vash

"ahhhh...centermass."

nice hole punching higgens! you should just spray paint, "do not disturb" on one of those and post it up on a front yard tree.

Heh heh heh... great idea...

[m21sniper]

I should have taken some pix of the 25yd groups i shot with my P7 when i had the Fastfire II HUD mounted on it. Freakin' ridiculously accurate.