Flying lessons

[slodave]

I'm the opposite of Joe. My nemisis is th err Cessna. I love the Warrior and low wing planes in general.

[abisel]

Originally Posted by Embraer

you're following the aircraft, or (prior to you adding the additional info) there could have been two aircraft crossing in front of you, same altitude, at a 90 degree angle to you.

Well, if you are following an aircraft, you would not be able to see the wing tip nav lights, just the white tail nav light and the anti-collision light(s). As for two aircraft crossing in front, that would be true, but I did say a single aircraft.

[slodave]

The aircraft is in front of you and going the same direction.

[abisel]

Well you all have failed my question. At least for the answer I was looking for.

If you are flying at night straight and level at 5000 feet AGL on a 090 heading and you see the nav lights of a co-altitude aircraft in the distance directly in front of you.. You see the red light on the left and the green light on the right. What does that tell you?

The only way you can see both the red and green wing tip nav lights is if the distant aircraft is flying toward you or at a slight angle. If you see a red light on the left and a green light on the right, there is two possibilities. Either you or the distant aircraft is inverted.

The proper visual for an oncoming aircraft would be to see the green light on the left and the red light on the right.

[Flieger]

So, if it was green on the right as you said, then the aircraft is going the same direction so Dave got it right.

[Flieger]

Port and starboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[gshase]

My advice as a CFII MEI and AGI (flight instructor) for 30 years, do not fly on those days that are marginal weather or the weather exceeds your or the planes ability. Today I was just informed of the instructor that took me on my first flight in high school is in the ICU after a mishap in a twin Piper. I have left the airport many times opting not to fly due to the weather. This is after checking with the weather service with a decent report by phone. Don't let someone try to change your mind and try to talk you into flying an a marginal day. The last numbers I have from the FAA is the average number of flight hours to get a license (private) is 67 hours and $8300. In my Cessna 170 I charge $145 an hour. It adds up fast and I have seen many people start and quit due to funding or family Issues. There is nothing better than flying on a beautiful day and not much worse than flying in weather on a bad day. Good luck and pick your days.

[abisel]

Originally Posted by Flieger

So, if it was green on the right as you said, then the aircraft is going the same direction so Dave got it right.

I stated that you could see the red on the left and the green on the right while flying. If both you and the oncoming aircraft were upright, you would see the red on the right and the green on the left. Dave said the aircraft was in front and going the same direction. You can't see the wing tip red or green lights from behind.

Maybe this will help.
Aircraft Navigation Lights | Learn to Fly Canada

[slodave]

I think it depends on the plane and where the lights are located on the tips. Another pilot agrees with my answer and so did a quick Goolge during dinner.

[Flieger]

I agree. Both answers are acceptable. I think it is more likely that both planes are upright in this context. Holding altitude and heading while inverted at night is not that easy.

[Embraer]

Originally Posted by abisel

I stated that you could see the red on the left and the green on the right while flying. If both you and the oncoming aircraft were upright, you would see the red on the right and the green on the left. Dave said the aircraft was in front and going the same direction. You can't see the wing tip red or green lights from behind.

Maybe this will help.
Aircraft Navigation Lights | Learn to Fly Canada

in that case, let's say it's an aerobatic aircraft, flying at night, in front of you. in a quick "oh man, let's do a hammerhead" moment...he decides to yank back on the yoke and go vertical. as you keep trucking along, you see what appears to be the planform of an aircraft with a red light on the left, and a green light on the right. he's not coming towards you, but still manages to show his super cool navlights to you.

[abisel]

Even older aircraft with the wing tip nav lights of the old school design, the lens and cover are designed to keep the light shining forward and outboard at a 110 degree arc, never aft.



Even the light bulb itself is designed to shine forward and outboard.


If the aircraft is in front of you, you would see the white tail nav light. I never said that in the original question. Only green and red are visible.

If the aerobatic pilot is showing you a planform view of his aircraft, you would see the white tail nav light. Again, in my original question, you only see the red and green nothing else.

Even if holding altitude/heading while inverted isn't easy, it could be done, but your oil and fuel system must be designed for extended duration in that flight attitude.

some more info:
Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - Aircraft Lights & Beacons

Maybe this pdf will explain all as it describes the designs and requirements of nav lighting.
http://www.goodrich-lighting.com/catalog/Chapter08_Navigation_Lights/08_0025_Navigation_Lights.pdf?expand=1

I'm just saying that if you see a red light on the left and a green light on the right, you better check your ADI to make sure it isn't you and then watch out 'cause the other guy may be doing rolls or spilled his coffee in his lap and he is coming right at you.

The FAR's explain it all regarding aircraft nav lighting.

Don't get me wrong, this is all good stuff.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by abisel

Even if holding altitude/heading while inverted isn't easy, it could be done, but your oil and fuel system must be designed for extended duration in that flight attitude.

I'm just saying that if you see a red light on the left and a green light on the right, you better check your ADI to make sure it isn't you and then watch out 'cause the other guy may be doing rolls or spilled his coffee in his lap and he is coming right at you.

Based on the above, your answer is not possible in a non-aerobatic plane. I know how spatial disorientation works, I've been blindfolded and asked to turn the plane in one direction, hold it for a few seconds and then attempt to straighten the plane out. I've also been inverted numerous times in an aerobatic plane and there is no mistaking that feeling, not to mention that everything that is not secured has now hit the ceiling.

[WolfeMacleod]

I'm no pilot, but after reading the original "What does that tell you?" post my first though was it probably means....
"You'd better turn. Soon."

[recycled sixtie]

Yes there is lots good advice above. Learning how to do an accurate 180 degree turn is one of the best things to do. For instance if you see an undercast in the distance and you are a new pilot, then dont get caught flying above a cloud layer unless you have a suitably equipped aircraft and you have an ifr rating. I like the old expression, "learn from the mistakes of other pilots because you wont live long enough to make them all yourself". There is so much to learn when you are a new pilot especially after you have gone solo. The other expression is "there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots"

The comments above about flying in poor weather-low ceiling and low vis. holds true. Do not do it . Believe me it is no fun unless you have experience, it can be dangerous and it could be illegal. There are a lot of negatives above but as Clint Eastwood says , "man has got to know his limitations". In other words do your homework, study hard and fly on good weather days especially when you are first learning to fly. It is much more enjoyable this way.

The above poster is totally correct and he has never flown. If the two lites in front of you are not moving,watch out and possibly evasive action may be needed to avoid a collision!
Hope this all helps.

[Embraer]

Originally Posted by abisel

Even older aircraft with the wing tip nav lights of the old school design, the lens and cover are designed to keep the light shining forward and outboard at a 110 degree arc, never aft.



Even the light bulb itself is designed to shine forward and outboard.


If the aircraft is in front of you, you would see the white tail nav light. I never said that in the original question. Only green and red are visible.

If the aerobatic pilot is showing you a planform view of his aircraft, you would see the white tail nav light. Again, in my original question, you only see the red and green nothing else.

Even if holding altitude/heading while inverted isn't easy, it could be done, but your oil and fuel system must be designed for extended duration in that flight attitude.

some more info:
Aerospaceweb.org | Ask Us - Aircraft Lights & Beacons

Maybe this pdf will explain all as it describes the designs and requirements of nav lighting.
http://www.goodrich-lighting.com/catalog/Chapter08_Navigation_Lights/08_0025_Navigation_Lights.pdf?expand=1

I'm just saying that if you see a red light on the left and a green light on the right, you better check your ADI to make sure it isn't you and then watch out 'cause the other guy may be doing rolls or spilled his coffee in his lap and he is coming right at you.

The FAR's explain it all regarding aircraft nav lighting.

Don't get me wrong, this is all good stuff.

you can say im intimately familiar with the FAR's. and yes, you will see the nav lights if you're looking down (or at) the planform of an aircraft. your original question had multiple correct answers.

[abisel]

I should have been more explicit in my original question. But it did bring up good discussions.

... and Dave brings up a good topic. Spacial Disorientation. This will kill you real fast. Such as what happened the Day the Music Died.

Civil Aeronautics Board Report on the Crash that killed Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper

Back during my private/instrument/commercial pilot training you will wear an IFR training hood that will limit your vision to only inside the aircraft. The instructor will ask you to close your eyes and look down while he slowly puts the aircraft into an unusual attitude. Then he will say "ok, you have it" and you will have to make corrections to put the aircraft back on a straight and level attitude/airspeed. Your body will tell you everything is ok, but the instruments will tell you something completely different. It may be difficult to make aircraft adjustments when your inner ear is telling you the opposite. Bottom line, trust your instruments.

Here is some interesting stuff on spacial disorientation and sensory illusions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_illusions_in_aviation

[Seahawk]

DC.

First of all, so much good gouge already...read and heed.

You can do a lot of up front work using software packages readily available before you even get in a plane. It works.

Also, if they will let you go sit in the aircraft you're going to fly before your first lesson. Learn where the nobs and switches are, run through the checklists...don't touch anything, just get comfortable with the "office". Close your eyes and reach out and point to specific instruments, AI, etc.

I always did this in flight school and in the fleet aircraft I flew. Your mind will be racing on your first flight so eliminating as many new experiences as possible helps.

Lastly, instructors are there to help and enable, the relationship between the two of you is critical. If you are not happy, find another one. It is your money and time.

It is a great journey and a wonderful skill to try and master.

[dmcummins]

Thank's guy's. I am planning on stopping by the airport tomorrow. Hopefully I will be able to get more info then. I have all the time in the world, so I defiantly don't plan on going up in bad weather. I will also look into the software packages available.

What would be a good software package? And where would I buy it?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by dmcummins

What would be a good software package? And where would I buy it?

Tons of them...Microsoft is very good.

flight software - Google Search

I went for a 1/2 hour flight with my neighbor this afternoon. He has a Cub and has his own grass strip.

We bounced the pattern for 10 minutes then watched a Harmon Rocket do arco over the Potomac.

beautiful day.