Tell me I am wrong...

[recycled sixtie]

about this if you like but I think I am right. In my fairly long life(in my 60's), I have seen this more than once and I find it very disturbing. Two men I have known in the present and in the past have a wife with cancer in palliative care and alzeimers in long term care respectively. Each one has a girlfriend while their respective spouse lies in hospital. What do you say to this kind of man? Anything or nothing? Conversely if u were the man lying in hospital, would you be okay with your wife having a boyfriend? Are men more likely to do this than women?
I go with sticking with the wife thru thick and thin. I would appreciate your comments.

[monoflo]

Being in your age group -- it is reality check time as one starts to see the herd thinning so to speak.
I feel men are more likely that women to have the backup chicky on the line when the long term spouse is failing.

I for one would say these guys are mostly vermin -with little or no honor and absolutely no respect for their families.

But I am a Duty, Honor, Country sort of man-hence my take on this.

Mflo

[Zeke]

Do you think anyone here is going to say it's OK? Why a question like that? It's not even open ended.

[Crowbob]

The morality of these circumstances are situational and vary widely. From your post these two men would be considered callous. However, Alzheimer's can take years to completely unfold and the affected person can be 'gone' years before he/she dies. With end-stage cancer, the individual may/may not be aware of his/her surroundings. The ulitmate determination of the 'correctness' is unique to the individuals involved. Had they exchanged vows (i.e., through sickness and in health) there is little question. OTOH, were the marriage simply a document with no commitment between the parties, then its not so bad.

Prior to my entering end-stage whatever, I would have squared up where I stood with my SO. In the end, its nobody else's business.

Yes, it goes both ways.

Interesting that you do not comment on the 'kind of women' the girlfriends are.

(Welcome to PPOT).

[stomachmonkey]

Tough one.

I would stick with my wife but it is not my place to judge others.

Had a very good friend pass 2 weeks before his 40th birthday.

He had been sick for a while and kept it private so it was a shock to those who knew him.

How long his wife had been dealing with it is unknown but it was most certainly a couple of months at least.

They have two children, both under 6.

Month or so ago we heard she was in a new relationship and at first the thought was "that seems awfully quick".

Then I saw the pictures of her new guy playing with my friends children and I got angry.

But the more I thought about it the more it comforted me. He looks to be a great guy. He loves her and looks like he'll make a fine stepdad.

And the reality is nothing is bringing Matt back.

He lives in FL and she just finished moving there this week.

I believe Matt would want her to be happy and for his kids to grow up with a father.

Life goes on.

[Spacebird]

My take after a few seconds of thought:

Alzheimer's is a particularly difficult situation as the person you knew and loved is already gone for all intents and purposes. I would be sympathetic to somebody who found a new love while still married to a partner in a very diminished mental state.

[recycled sixtie]

was not all encompassing. It is interesting crowbob about your stating "what kind of girlfriend". I had not thought of that aspect of the girlfriend's character assuming you were referring to that. The other post "after I was dead I would want my spouse to be happy" is very profound. I always say that you dont know what you have got till she is gone. I will give my wife an extra hug today.

[Z-man]

If my wife passed away before I do, I would not remarry, even though she has said it would be ok for me to do so. Once I loose my soulmate, there is no one who can replace her.

-Z

[asphaltgambler]

My mother developed alzheimers in her early 80's -Dad who was two years older had to deal with her and refused any help. Was true to her completely to her death, although the last year and a half she didn't recognize him and would throw tantrums (and other things) saying "this man" was holding her hostage - which to that end she even would call the police.

All the while all the local blue hair single 'church going' women and even one in her late 50's wanted some of him by trying to stake a claim. Towards my mom's life ending, his driveway looked like grand central station. To my knowledge, he was with and true to her to the awful end and it was many months after before he would start to 'entertain' company

What a man.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

The morality of these circumstances are situational and vary widely. From your post these two men would be considered callous. However, Alzheimer's can take years to completely unfold and the affected person can be 'gone' years before he/she dies. With end-stage cancer, the individual may/may not be aware of his/her surroundings. The ulitmate determination of the 'correctness' is unique to the individuals involved. Had they exchanged vows (i.e., through sickness and in health) there is little question. OTOH, were the marriage simply a document with no commitment between the parties, then its not so bad.

Prior to my entering end-stage whatever, I would have squared up where I stood with my SO. In the end, its nobody else's business.

Yes, it goes both ways.

Interesting that you do not comment on the 'kind of women' the girlfriends are.

(Welcome to PPOT).

+1

Alzheimer, coma, vegetative state, .. the person you married to is gone.
people are not made to be alone...

I think in certain situations after years of solitude.. it's perfectly understandable, and the honor will be found in the way they still take care of the partner who is "gone".
Making sure for proper care and the occasional visit..

[wdfifteen]

Often times in the early stages of Alzheimers the sick person rejects their partner and caretaker. I've seen it happen in a couple of families. My mild mannered father became vicious toward my mother in his early stages. He rejected her completely and even physically attacked her more than once. She went through five years of hell before he mentally checked out completely. I wouldn't blame someone in her situation if they found comfort in another person, as they may have been rejected by the sick spouse already.
I don't know about the cancer victim. No experience there.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

My mother developed alzheimers in her early 80's -Dad who was two years older had to deal with her and refused any help. Was true to her completely to her death, although the last year and a half she didn't recognize him and would throw tantrums (and other things) saying "this man" was holding her hostage - which to that end she even would call the police.

All the while all the local blue hair single 'church going' women and even one in her late 50's wanted some of him by trying to stake a claim. Towards my mom's life ending, his driveway looked like grand central station. To my knowledge, he was with and true to her to the awful end and it was many months after before he would start to 'entertain' company

What a man.

I call the "The Code of Honour"

You should be proud of your dad.

[Aurel]

And even if the sick person still has all their mental capabilities, they may find comfort in seeing their partner happy and moving on. Remember that death is always harder on those who stay than those who go. Sometimes, what may appears to be selfish and uncaring is in fact good for the other person. As long as their life partner is not abandoning or rejecting them.

[masraum]

I don't know if I would or wouldn't do it. I am pretty sure that I wouldn't, but without being in a situation that traumatic (which I think we can all agree it would be VERY difficult) I can't say for sure.

I suspect this behavior is more about a coping issue than anything else. This guy is undergoing one of the most stressful things that a person can go through, and the person that he's had for support can't. Whether it starts as a friend that he can talk to in the stressful thing and the emotion and closeness of the situation leads to other things, or the guy is stressed out and has a purely physical fling to help relieve the stress, I can see how you'd end up doing that.

Or, he could just be a total douche, but if that's the case, then he's probably always been a total douche and has probably been screwing around for years.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by masraum

Or, he could just be a total douche, but if that's the case, then he's probably always been a total douche and has probably been screwing around for years.

First thing that crossed my mind.

You guys talk about diminished capacity but what about family? Someone knows what's going on and in this instance it's someone who will post it on the Net.

Jeezus.

[cairns]

If my wife passed away before I do, I would not remarry, even though she has said it would be ok for me to do so. Once I loose my soulmate, there is no one who can replace her.

I feel the same way. OTOH if I died I'd want her to do whatever makes her happy.

[asphaltgambler]

My Dad lived to just shy of 89. Until the last couple of years he was in shape, fit, still very handsome and a great conversationalist. You would have never guessed his age. My parents were of "The Greatest Generation" - Married over 63 years - they truely loved each other.

Funniest thing I remember is, many years ago - Mom saying that she was sure most of the local women could not wait for her to die! - she said prolly a couple of "them' would help shovel some dirt onto her at her funeral and ride back to dad's place!!

All those years later........... she was right on target. Just Dad never acted on it

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Zeke

First thing that crossed my mind.

You guys talk about diminished capacity but what about family? Someone knows what's going on and in this instance it's someone who will post it on the Net.

Jeezus.

I know that in some situations families will, and in fact have accepted the facts for what they are, and even told the remaining partner that they are ok with it if he goes on with his life. If the situation is really that the partner is a plant, and is not going to recover, and the remaining partner did and still does everything humanly possible to take care of the other one...

Hell, i would not like the idea myself, that if i had somebody i loved.. and i turned into a cabbage head.. That the person i love, would be lonely for another 30-40 years.
I feel it would be selfish on my behalf to expect that of anybody.

Ideally i'de like em to pull the plug or actively euthanize me first, cause i hate the part of me laying there like a bag of bones for that time..
And the risk that some part of me remains.. well that's no risk.. if my mind is trapped in a shell.. i'de rather have em pull the plug then be trapped for decades..

Either way, it's not all black and white.. In certain situations it can be reasonable to move on. People cannot stay alone and in a state of perpetual grieving for decades.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

It depends.

Just on face value, a spouse who will leave an ill spouse who is short term ill shows little in the space of integrity. Throw into the mix a long term debilitating illness and any agreements (of which others might know nothing) and you can end up with a differing set of results.

It is so hard to call this with so few facts known.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

All the while all the local blue hair single 'church going' women and even one in her late 50's wanted some of him by trying to stake a claim. Towards my mom's life ending, his driveway looked like grand central station. To my knowledge, he was with and true to her to the awful end and it was many months after before he would start to 'entertain' company

What a man.

My Mother had a brief bout (six months from diagnosis to passing) with cancer...she was 60, as was my Dad.

About five months into her struggle, when it became clear sunset was near, there were enough 40/50 early 60 year-old women in the queue to occasion my Father to have a chat with me (I was 34 and unmarried at the time).

This was in 1990. He hadn't dated another woman since 1949.

It was an interesting day. He didn't date for a year, married four years later.

Given a long, protracted illness it is difficult to assign blame. I hope I never have to find out.