CVT: Ready for prime time?

[legion]

About a year ago, a friend called me with car problems. Her babysitter was stuck on the side of the road. The car wouldn't go anywhere. Long story short, the babysitter's car had a CVT, and the rubber band had snapped. Later on she found out that CVTs cannot be repaired, only replaced. After that, she discovered that GM had recalled its CVTs, and got some money back for the repair. (The dealership did not volunteer this information at the time of the repair.)

The wife and I are about to replace her 2002 Sunfire. We think a small, 4-door crossover fits the bill. I started doing some research, and all of our initial favorites have CVTs. My inclination is to run from them. My understanding is they are still not very robust and often fail.

[sc_rufctr]

I remember when these were prototypes. Apparently the band pushes the cone pully instead of pulling it so in theory they should last a very long time.

For me it's a manual tans or nothing. (except in a car like the Bently )

[onewhippedpuppy]

It's not vroom vroom, more like vroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom.

Something like that. I don't like my cars to sound like vacuum cleaners.

[wdfifteen]

I "inherited" my mom's Murano a couple of months after buying it for her in November 2010. I like it just fine. The function of the CVT transmission seems appropriate in a transportation appliance. It's not exciting - or even interesting- but it's functional.

[Schumi]

How many championship winning racecars (not including sand-draggers) have had CVT's?


There's your answer.

[TheMentat]

Originally Posted by Schumi

How many championship winning racecars (not including sand-draggers) have had CVT's?


There's your answer.

I guarantee you they would be using them in F1 if the rules permitted it!

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Got a loaner CVT Subaru of some kind (Legacy?) back when the dealer destroyed my VW's motor.

That thing sucked. No matter what speed you're driving, you feel like it's powered by a dentist's drill.

[Mark Henry]

Snowmobiles have been using them since the sixties.
If they can't make them so that the belt can be changed in about 1 minute their engineers are idiots.
Some of my buds put a poopload of HP through these units. Many ATV/UTV's use them as well.

[Heel n Toe]

Formula Chainsaw, anyone? Also known as Formula 440.

[oldE]

Originally Posted by Schumi

How many championship winning racecars (not including sand-draggers) have had CVT's?


There's your answer.

Come on Shumi! No correlation at all.
Most vehicles on North American roads use automatic transmissions, not because "Championship winning racecars" use them, but because they work for the conditions.

However, if you are driving a low torque engine in traffic conditions which leave you no time to deal with the demands of gear changing (and you are not getting paid to change those gears), a CVT just might be the best answer for you.

I agree the aural signature of an engine transmitting its power in the most efficient mode through a CVT is unfamiliar, but for those who just want to get in and have the thing get them where they want to go, it does the job just fine.

Having said all that, I'm one of those guys who likes changing gears himself in most conditions. Get me in the middle of slow-moving city traffic however and I might happily take a break from pushing the clutch pedal.

Overall, the current crop of CVTs are performing better than I expected.

Best
Les

[kaisen]

I think Chris' question was "are they reliable, yet?" and I think the answer is sadly, no.

Nissan has really commited to CVTs and they are in every FWD-based car, CUV, and van they make. They've really got the feel down and they behave very well. You'll quickly forget it's a CVT in 85% of circumstances. The benefit is that it is smoother and gets significantly better fuel economy at lower speeds (city driving). But it does trade off some high-speed efficiency.

However, Nissan still has had problems with the longevity. Murano was the first to show chinks in the armor, with many of the early (<2007) Muranos suffering significant transmission failures with 60-100K on the clock. The lighter vehicles tend to fare better, and AWD strains any transmission a little more than 2WD. But my ex had a new 2008 Sentra SE-R that needed (and got) a new transaxle before 20K miles.

Under warranty, no problem. But to most techs, a CVT might as well be powered by unicorns and leprechauns, because no one is willing to crack one open. Nissan does not authorize or train on CVT internal repair. You just need to buy a new unit. And the entire deal is $5000+.

CVTs are starting to show up in more and more manufacturers' line ups. Subaru particularly. Most of these units are produced by Aisin, who also makes the clutch-to-clutch automatics that tend to fail in Hondas and Acuras. The failed CVTs in GM/Saturn VUEs were Aisin.

Let's hope they've figured out how to make them more durable, and start training technicians how to service and rebuild them.

[GH85Carrera]

One of my "friends of a friend" had some cheap FWD car that the CVT transmission failed once under warranty at 40K miles. It died again at 80K and the transmission failure just totaled the car. The transmission would cost more to replace than the entire car is worth. He had just paid the car off a few months ago. Now it is a parts dog.

Once they get the CVT transmission to a point that is can be serviced and rebuilt for a reasonable cost it will make sense for the consumer. Unless that consumer is one of the folks that buys a new car every three years so that everything is under warranty CVT is scary.

[Flieger]

My Mom has a 2001 Prius and that car has been very reliable. There was an odd thing with the electric power steering early on but that was fixed under warranty. No unintended acceleration or CVT troubles. Not sure how many miles but I would say 10000 per year.

[mikehinton]

I won't buy one until there's no other choice. If it doesn't have 3 pedals on the floor, I'm not driving it!

[legion]

Originally Posted by kaisen

I think Chris' question was "are they reliable, yet?"

Correct. We want to keep this vehicle for 10 years.

[teenerted1]

send the idiot techs to a moto-scooter or snowmobile shop.
these guys have been working on them for decades.
they are rally easy to service... pop a cover replace the belt and maybe some rollers and you are done. they even make belts with kevlar to extend the life and reduce stretching.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by legion

Correct. We want to keep this vehicle for 10 years.

and it replaces a Sunfire.

maybe the best approach is to list various cars you are considering; state new vs. used and see what people come up with

[sammyg2]

My wife bought my daughter a nissan sentra with a cvt, against my wishes.

Luckily a few months ago the dealer had no problem replacing the POS cvt at 50k when it blew up. It wasn't just a belt though, it was eating itself from the inside out. Metal bits everywhere.
Evidently the dealer was used to replacing those transmissions for free as they didn't even bat an eye and had a spare sitting on the shelf ready to go.
I'm guessing I'll have to replace it at least one more time before she graduates from college.

[jhynesrockmtn]

I recently drove the new Subaru outback thinking about replacing my Acura MDX. The CVT was interesting. Seemed like it worked ok for that type of car. I thought the sales guy said theirs was a chain and not a belt??? Ultimately I was not impressed with the whole package though and decided to put a few $'s in the MDX and keep it for mountain/winter/towing duty but get a different dd. Thus my GTI purchase. Interestingly the outback is available with a 6 speed MT but it sucks. It's apparently cable actuated? and is notchy as hell, the engine rpms don't fall enough in between shifts when you let off the gas, ugh. I actually preferred the CVT car.

[jmaxwell]

We had a 2007 Maxima in which the CVT failed at 30K. It was fine until my SO left the key on and the battery ran down and needed a jump. Don't know whether or not the two are related, but it was curious. Replaced under warranty, and as others have said, the factory did not allow it to be opened up, just swapped out. Nissan has since extended the warranty to 100K miles on just the transmission.